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Limiting implants and augmentations.

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Prophet710 Prophet710's picture
Limiting implants and augmentations.
I keep thinking of making the game more gritty, (indeed I already have several times over but my group loves more challenge). So, to follow such a trail I have thought about limiting the amount of implants a biomorph or synthmorph can stack on without becoming completely unfunctional. I realize that with the advent of nano technology and completely non-invasive surgery the amount could be rather impressive, however, even 10 AF my setting is not quite that advanced (at least not readily). I was thinking about basing the amount off of something like Wound Threshold to denote the morphs ability to deal with foreign trauma. Or, perhaps Trauma threshold? to denote the minds ability to deal with the same. To balance this out I've also given every non-biomorph the Negative Quality (Detachment) a sort of manic-dissociative disorder that results from the mind not harvesting the right kind of biochemical stimulants that a normal body would give, causing a sense of inner depression, anxiety, nervousness, agitation and social/emotional detachment. Thoughts? I thought about putting this in homebrew but since this is a rules worthy topic I thought General discussion would be better.
"And yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this Earth with envious eyes. And slowly, and surely, they drew their plans against us."
Prophet710 Prophet710's picture
Re: Limiting implants and augmentations.
I have a more "spiritual" view on the foreign effects not having a body will have on the mind. Software or not, to me at least, human consciousness is a derivative of higher evolution, chemical/biological stimulant and higher dimensional theory and as thus being deprived of such would have subtle consequence to the consciousness' inner architecture. (Perhaps I worded that wrong, but it sounded sensible to me [after a few glasses of whiskey]).
"And yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this Earth with envious eyes. And slowly, and surely, they drew their plans against us."
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Limiting implants and augmentations.
Prophet710 wrote:
I have a more "spiritual" view on the foreign effects not having a body will have on the mind. Software or not, to me at least, human consciousness is a derivative of higher evolution, chemical/biological stimulant and higher dimensional theory and as thus being deprived of such would have subtle consequence to the consciousness' inner architecture.
Of course, one can turn it around. Since technology is directly derived from intelligent design, it might embody even higher forms of consciousness. Maybe enhanced people actually are subtly enlightened or in tune with the *real* spiritual forces of the universe... which might not be the least comforting ;-)
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Xagroth Xagroth's picture
Re: Limiting implants and augmentations.
In the old Cyberpunk 2020 the amount of implants any given character could have had a money cost, a healing time... and a "humanity" cost. The less human a character became, the more like a cold fish without emotions he was... until humanity 0, where the "cyberpsicosis" limit was reached. In Shadowrun, the implants "killed" the soul of the character, so being heavily augmented was equal to be like a zombie. Of course, if a limitation in this way is implemented (quite easy to derive from the Savvy value of the ego, for example -1 to Savvy per 5.000 creds of implants, not counting the ones that come with the body), one has to consider some stuff those two games didn't had to deal with, being it the change of body (and one CP and EP have in common, psicological treatment. In CP 2020, the only way to regain the humanity was to receive the treatment after the removal of the implants, while in EP we have psichosurgery... and the possibility of changing to another body... or using a forked infomorph of yourself for those pesky Networking rolls...). Personally, I limit the implants with a very simple rule: military-grade hardware is never looked like lollipops are, so where Reapers are forbiden, certain implants are, at least, controlled by security forces, and all morphs are scanned upon boarding on certain places (like Planetary Consortium controlled habitats)... which doesn't forbid the players to try to hide the implants, or bribe the guards... But as always, they risk being forced to sleeve into another morph if they still want to go in that habitat.
Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture
Re: Limiting implants and augmentations.
I'm in on the rules concerning strict habitat controls. It's not something that has really come up on Extropia, where my current game is set, but they're effectively incapable of going anywhere else without raising some eyebrows, not the least of reasons being that one player is literally sleeved in a battle-tank. Implant overload doesn't seem all that likely to me, especially with cyberware. Bioware, being biochemically based, seems like it could have all sorts of nutty interactions (such as the fun side-effects of having your liver constantly produce a certain anti-toxin to protect against your poison glands perhaps causing you to lose a bit of your sense of taste), but I doubt it's exactly common or the products would never be released (at least in the inner system and the Commonwealth). While these sorts of problems could come up with experimental implants and, of course, pre-Fall games, I doubt they're that much of a problem in 10 AF. If you do want to include these sort of effects, you'll likely have to go shoot-from-the-hip style about it. A cyberbrain might have drastic consequences from a simulated chemical imbalance, but it'd vary greatly, and randomly, based on the person, while getting a mesh insert might give some people headaches, but things like a ghostrider module wouldn't actually cause any harm. You'd also have to be very careful about how arbitrary you are with it. Be very certain in your reasoning what makes one implant or combination of implants taboo, but others not. You don't want players who are very good at persuasive arguments managing to convince you how they should be allowed to become posthuman gods through good points while less informed or canny players are left in the dust.
Xagroth Xagroth's picture
Re: Limiting implants and augmentations.
The implant interactions should be left entirely as a narrative tool, I think, because it would promote too much synthmorphs, and while we all agree that (on paper) a synthmorph is much better than any biomorph of comparable cost (another thing entirely would be the effects on the mindof the sleeved character... the first Takeshi Kovacs book shows that when presenting a woman trapped inside a case), part of the setting is that people prefers biomorphs to synths. Also, while a cyberbrain is better than a biobrain, it's also easier to hack and infect (basilisk hacks make possible to attack a biobrain... but in theory only TITAN-level of tech allow such technique). As has been said, making interactions between implants the matter of "what you can have and what you can't" leaves some players behind, and focuses another players into justifying their implants instead of playing the game. Forcing egocasts and visits to zones that require subtle augmentations, however, is much more equal to all players and requires less work from the GM, who only has to say "this habitat forbids those implants. You can get a software inhibitor, sleeve into another morph... or not go at all". Paranoid players should be right about refusing any PC controlled habitat to install software in their morphs...
thelabmonkey thelabmonkey's picture
Re: Limiting implants and augmentations.
If you come at it from the perspective of someone who builds custom gaming computers, there are a lot of things that can go wrong when you start mix-n-matching multiple off-the-shelf components. This graphics card doesn't support that chipset... if you have two sticks of ram in a triple-channnel configured motherboard, you don't get the speed benefits of either... things like that. So, in the spirit of house rules and making twinked out characters more "interesting, what if... The more bio/cyberware a morph has (beyond what is included in the morph) the person building/adding must make a research check at (+30 simple). Each piece of bio/cyberware adds 5 to the difficulty. This would represent the odds that a piece of conflicting hard/soft/meatware is introduced into that morph's ever increasingly complicated and brittle eco-system. The rolls would not be on a per-item basis, though. It would be per-surgery and use the final implant count in one roll. Getting a set of cyber claws and enhanced vision in a new morph should be a cake walk (-5*2= -10). There's no reason anything should go wrong with a remaining +20 and assistance from your muse. If you are worried, you take the time to get some extra bonuses. But when you already have 15 implants, then you start to bump up against a -75 penalty and even them mighty bonus stacking EP rules won't make it a sure thing. Consequences could be roleplayed or could translate directly into game mechanics... a critical failure or terrible MOF could mean anything from paying double to having to take the "Lemon" trait until you can be thoroughly debugged and swap out the offending part.
thelabmonkey thelabmonkey's picture
Re: Limiting implants and augmentations.
Axel wrote:
... one player is literally sleeved in a battle-tank...
If he has lots of hardware he could run into problems with bad drivers! *ZING*
Re-Laborat Re-Laborat's picture
Re: Limiting implants and augmentations.
thelabmonkey wrote:
Axel wrote:
... one player is literally sleeved in a battle-tank...
If he has lots of hardware he could run into problems with bad drivers! *ZING*
Yeah. As if that weren't bad enough, I don't know how [i]cannon[/i] it would be, but far worse, he could get [i]turrets[/i] syndrome... (Especially if he's plugged into something like one of those old early 20th c. landcruisers...)
OrangeRequired OrangeRequired's picture
Re: Limiting implants and augmentations.
I've been playing around with a similar concept for our campaign, since I'd like to try and keep my players a little more grounded - at least for now - without discouraging them from being creative with modifications; I'm very much on the Call of Cthulhu end of EP than the players-are-walking-tanks action end of EP. We've yet to start but just going over the list with my players has me angsting about how, or even if, I should deal with souped-up morphs. One idea I've been thinking about, based on Arenamontanus's article on the subject, is essentially similar to the bad luck trait; every time the amount of extra implants (above the amount that morph gets by default) exceeds the morph's Wound Threshold, the GM gets a moxie point every session to use only with fritzing that player's enhancements in a creative way; their enhanced vision gets interference from their eelware, or their cyberware limb has problems interfacing with the character when they're using their Multi-Tasking implant. This has the nice added effect of only cropping up when players are actually using their implants in an active way, too.
Xagroth Xagroth's picture
Re: Limiting implants and augmentations.
Wouldn't that be like a mix of the Lemon trait and the Unlucky disadvantage? Personally, the more cyberimplants they have, the more vulnerable they are to hacking, so...
Dry Observer Dry Observer's picture
Re: Limiting implants and augmentations.
I would let characters use most augmentations, psi sleights and other gifts with few limitations, in particular since I assume egocasting is the default travel option for most Firewall groups unless they mostly play in a single small region (Luna, Mars, Venus, Extropia, Titan, etc) or are involved in Gatecrashing. Further, most habitats will have *some* restrictions on the most egregious weapons and vehicles, and may object to over-the-top military enhancements. Either situation filters out excessive technological advantages. Biologically, unless I really think a set of augments are apt to interact badly, or that one or more might be badly implanted, I would let most things slide. Remember, the technology is very well-researched at this point, especially for standard, low-cost options. In particular, any set of modifications inherent to a common morph I assume to have no normal side effects other than any already stated for them (such Neurastem 2). There are two main issues with dramatically excessive augmentation. The first is the common, emergent Seed AI/Exhuman concern -- that characters might experience a runaway evolution, not necessarily of a positive nature, and end up as something both more and less than human. Or simply more. Or simply less. Or simply *Other.* The second issue is that I treat many augments and psi sleights as creating vulnerabilities to certain kinds of basilisk hacks aimed at advanced intelligences that are often completely ineffective against ordinary transhumans. For example, most mathematical enhancements render beings potentially vulnerable to hacks with a mathematical element, including certain programs that unfold over time given the correct formula supplied to the host mind -- piece by piece -- in concert with the correct data/stimuli. Any form of perfect memory (even, manipulated correctly, a Muse or common Mesh reminder programs) is an invitation for a hack to unfold over vastly greater timescales -- days, months, even years or longer. Grok enables the transfer of a vast multitude of relevant concepts and stimuli, without the targeted mind ever being aware of them. And so on and so forth. This quirk is a common issue for most emergent posthumans, especially as I treat many psi sleights as gifts potentially available to sufficiently developed intelligences, in particular nascent Seed AIs. And there is one final problem with being incredibly intelligent in Eclipse Phase, a being far more advanced than most of the very capable people all around you: You're actually interesting enough to attract this kind of attention in the first place. Your average engineer or security guard is not.

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Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Limiting implants and augmentations.
Something I noticed last session: having too many implants means the player actually doesn't remember having them, and not using them to the fullest. So I would recommend that players do not take enhancements they do not fully understand. However, sometimes excessive implants that can lead to amazing situations. The climactic battle of yesterday's session involved remote parts of the team helping a xenoarchologist in a near-destroyed xu fu synthmorph use his active sensors as ultra-crude weapons to help his still living team-mate fight against three very deadly factors (underwater, surrounded by hagfish-like slime, while the factors were triggering a gate to implode the planet to a black hole). Much of the drama and fun consisted of figuring out how to misuse various enhancements. The final moment of awesomeness occurred when the team-mate had been finally killed and just one active factor remained. As it was tinkering with the gate, the remote team did extensive simulations and provided the archeologist with a very unusual targeting solution: he burned out his remaining sonar system to focus on a single point - a part of the internal oxygen tank in the dead team-mates chest. It exploded, sending a reinforced rib spearing through the factor, saving the day. (That rib is now on a wooden plaque at Proactionary's headquarters)
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