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PCs upping Reputation?

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UrbanMonkey UrbanMonkey's picture
PCs upping Reputation?
Looking for a way to keep the players from gaming the Rep system by constantly giving positive feedback on each others' Reps... Any ideas? EDIT: I had misunderstood - the real question was about how they could up other people's reps, but once I mentioned upping each others', they were interested in that, too.
Operator of [url=http://eclipse-phase.wikispaces.com]Chuck's Eclipse Phase Wiki[/url]
mds mds's picture
Re: PCs upping Reputation?
Mechanically, I think it's assumed that players would boost the reps of people who have done them favours unless they state otherwise. In the game, clique-detection algorithms would catch attempts by small groups to boost each others' reputations, and probably degrade the rep of the participants if it seems to be deliberate[1]. Even without that, the distributed algorithms would probably only give the most popular participant a slight boost, and bring the others closer to xyr rep total. Consider a group of friends, each telling you about how great the others in the group are. The fact that they *have* friends willing to promote them means that they're not complete screw-ups, but you're unlikely to take their sole word for it unless (at least) one of them has received similar compliments from a more trusted source. What's more, the rep score that muses provide for their users is a distillation of a much larger set of data. The normal way to boost someone's rep is to publicly[2] announce the nature of the favour performed. The recency, magnitude and significance to the user of these events are weighted by your muse (or other AIs) and spits out a number that summarizes "how much has this person helped the people and causes I care about?". Sitting around boosting each other's reps would involve posting either a large number of small entries, or a smaller number of large entries, some of which can be verified for accuracy. If no evidence is available for any of these acts, they're unlikely to affect rep too much. If contrary evidence is available and is found, the attempt at forgery is likely to hurt rep of both the one who made the post, and the one whose rep was being boosted, if they are believed to have been complicit. [1] A non-deliberate situation would be a small number of people on a tin-can together. When you're with the same people each day, the local reputation economy is going to be quite small. [2] Or less publicaly, in the case of g-rep, but still available to those in the know.
UrbanMonkey UrbanMonkey's picture
Re: PCs upping Reputation?
Thank you for such a well thought-out answer. You've come at this from several approaches that I would not have thought of. I truly appreciate it.
Operator of [url=http://eclipse-phase.wikispaces.com]Chuck's Eclipse Phase Wiki[/url]
Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture
Re: PCs upping Reputation?
The way I see it, it is a very complicated statistic equation based on the modern equivalent of 'I like' or 'I dislike' buttons, but also the written feedbacks and comments of people you either helped or schrewed over, and their own reputation score in that particular socnet. i reckon there are psychosurged informorph who do that for a living, along with AGI. They objectively, and detached, interpret the feedbacks and transmit the analysis to the AGIs who do the math and feed it to the muses. it's like Facebook and the Stock Exchange rolled in one.
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sufferian sufferian's picture
Re: PCs upping Reputation?
In agreeing with everything mds said, I'd like to point out that at least one of the criminal organizations in the core book (the Pax Familae) engage in "reputation network gaming." So while all of the difficulties that were pointed out are serious stumbling blocks to breaking the system, there is clearly room for smart players to try and boost each other's rep through false claims. If I were GMing your game I would turn it into an adventure, a sort of digital heist/con where the reward for successfully orchestrating a Favour is rewarded with the rep they wanted to get. However, failure should be punished with equal measure.
The Doctor The Doctor's picture
Re: PCs upping Reputation?
You know, this might be one of the reasons that alpha forking is discouraged so much in the Inner System. Alphas, unless they took steps to differentiate themselves from their prime instance, would naturally share reputation networks. Each alpha fork could effectively pump the reputation of the entire set of that particular ego unusually high by doing different things at the same time, working multiple nets and earning multiple favorable reviews. That would skew things severely in the direction of people who could afford the cost of hosting so many instances of themselves, kind of like Bitcoin mining naturally favors users with the horsepower to run the client the fastest. In the Inner System, that could change the balance of power in a way highly unfavorable to the powers that be (probably because some use that strategy themselves and they want to stay on top of the heap).
Monican Monican's picture
Re: PCs upping Reputation?
The Doctor wrote:
You know, this might be one of the reasons that alpha forking is discouraged so much in the Inner System. Alphas, unless they took steps to differentiate themselves from their prime instance, would naturally share reputation networks. Each alpha fork could effectively pump the reputation of the entire set of that particular ego unusually high by doing different things at the same time, working multiple nets and earning multiple favorable reviews. That would skew things severely in the direction of people who could afford the cost of hosting so many instances of themselves, kind of like Bitcoin mining naturally favors users with the horsepower to run the client the fastest. In the Inner System, that could change the balance of power in a way highly unfavorable to the powers that be (probably because some use that strategy themselves and they want to stay on top of the heap).
But the inner system doesn't use rep, or only uses it very rarely in special instances, often alongside credit. So I don't think this the reason for anti-alpha forking bias.
Xagroth Xagroth's picture
Re: PCs upping Reputation?
Consider yourself lucky they didn't start to create a net of false identities to gain reputation, or ignore the "favour cooldown" rules... XD
The Doctor The Doctor's picture
Re: PCs upping Reputation?
(EDIT: Wow, do I need to sleep more.)
Monican wrote:
But the inner system doesn't use rep, or only uses it very rarely in special instances, often alongside credit. So I don't think this the reason for anti-alpha forking bias.
Reputation may not be used in lieu of currency in the Inner System, but it does factor into many different things that are not obvious. Business dealings are built on reputation; successful businessbeings are more likely to lock down the big contracts, the big risks, and the most profitable ventures because their business history is so impressive. Business reputations are built deal by deal and company by company; a successful businessbeing who forks multiple times can run multiple such ventures in concert, and with the right software they would not interfere with each other (much). That sort of success makes them all look impressive - higher c-rep - which means that more people and hypercorps will consider that businessbeing (or cluster thereof) able, capable, and trustworthy enough to make all concerned hopelessly rich. Their reputation reflects their skill, knowledge, and track record. The same goes for the media: one personality can impress, lead, or coax millions of minds at a time. A cluster of forks of a charismatic media personality can all be well informed, and can argue the same topic from different points of view and different schools of thought simultaneously, and probably influence the mass media in a synergetic fashion. Being thought of as so capable, learned, and well spoken would mean that every mesh.news network out there would want to book time with them; publishing companies would want them (or one of them) to work with them because successful clients make for a successful publishing company. Imagine what a dozen Lady Gagas could do for everyone they partnered with. Or a dozen Glen Becks, for that matter. In the field of research, imagine what the reputation of a dozen instances of Arenamontanus, Julia Wolf, or Stephen Hawking would be capable of insofar as publicity would be concerned. They would have access to the finest minds in their respective fields. More researchers would want to work with them, because sharing names on whitepapers and being credited in source code looks good on a resume, gives one access to people that they otherwise might not (never underestimate the value of namedropping), and might even mean working for corporations or clients that would not otherwise give their CVs a second look. The networking skill means not only talking to people you know to learn things and finding opportunities that way, but namedropping and getting facts checked to make yourself look capable, trustworthy, and useful.
The Doctor The Doctor's picture
Re: PCs upping Reputation?
Xagroth wrote:
Consider yourself lucky they didn't start to create a net of false identities to gain reputation, or ignore the "favour cooldown" rules... XD
That is where reputation network gaming, AGI botnets, black- (and grey-) mail, and malware come into play.