While I was looking through a very fascinating site on nanotechnology yesterday I started looking into nanocomputers in particular with much interest. A question came to mind that might be really obvious, but that I have not found explicit confirmation of in EP: are ectos, mesh inserts, and similar devices nanocomputers (defined here as having components on the nanometer scale)?
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Ectos, Mesh Inserts
Fri, 2011-07-22 13:47
#1
Unity
Ectos, Mesh Inserts
Fri, 2011-07-22 13:50
#2
Arenamontanus
Re: Ectos, Mesh Inserts
I think much EP electronics uses nanoscale components, although for robustness and other reasons (e.g. diffraction in optical computing) a lot of them are larger than the nanoscale. But especially computer memory seems to be nanoscale.
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Fri, 2011-07-22 14:03
#3
Unity
Re: Ectos, Mesh Inserts
Much obliged; and yes, this would explain how they have the vast quantities of bandwidth and memory as presented in the setting.
And how they can run infomorphs on personal computers.
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Sun, 2011-07-24 20:08
#4
Monican
Re: Ectos, Mesh Inserts
When I'm running a game I much prefer the nanotech as presented in The Diamond Age: a very small amount of it will create tremendous heat and require lots of energy to run. That lets other forms of computing still be worthwhile- so I imagine a Jovian bioconservative's ecto is mostly hardwired computer chip with a small amount of nanotech in one or several of the components. But the whole thing isn't just "1kg of nanotech inside a plastic shell."
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Mon, 2011-07-25 02:15
#5
Unity
Re: Ectos, Mesh Inserts
While you are free to play it like that, that is not exactly how the game is presenting it.
I am not sure which is more realistic, at this stage of things.
Edit: Also, when I said nano-scale components, I did not mean actual mobile nanomachines. I meant just parts that were on the scale.
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Mon, 2011-07-25 05:52
#6
Arenamontanus
Re: Ectos, Mesh Inserts
How do you think the game is presenting it?
I think there are several kinds of active nano around:
The kind used in fabbers is likely somewhat like Drexler's vision: rigid, machine-like nanostructures that are good for making hard objects. This kind can run hot, since it does big volume chemical reactions (making and breaking chemical bonds). It needs lots of power, cooling and feedstock.
Then there are the subtle nanomachines used in bodies - medichines, nanophages, oracles etc. They have to be low impact, likely make use of lots of protein structures and other borrowed biology, often blurring over into synthetic biology.
Nanoswarms are built to be sufficiently low-energy that they can last, and resist tough environments. Alumina walls instead of diamond (due to fire hazard), robust designs.
Then there are the nanofactured objects. They can be very complex but do not necessarily draw much power - an optical nanocomputer might be very much like a solid diamond crystal with very complex flaws, powered by laser light from one side. A metamaterial just responds to incoming radiation.
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Mon, 2011-07-25 05:59
#7
Xagroth
Re: Ectos, Mesh Inserts
The Diamond age is a great book, especially for the cornucopia-affected society it presents (and the nanomachine wars it suggests).
As for the potency of the computers in EP, remember that there are Quantum computers in the setting, and while you won't have one as part of your mesh or ectos, they generate "byproducts", in this case technological advances that can be used to improve more cheap and traditional computers. Also, there is the possibility of the mesh/ectos being extremely powerful traditional computers that also act as terminals, each habitat having quantum computers embedded in the structure to act as servers for the people (in fact, I would bet the most repressive habitats have just that, which allows them to control what everybody is doing!), helping with all the stuff like searches, data storage and even processing power. That would also explain why the wireless range of ectos and mesh goes from 1 km on populated habitats to 20 in other places (but I just ignore that range in the habitats, because, well, it's hard not to think something like the mobile phone repeaters we now have in the cities cannot be adapted to use inside an habitat to extend the range of the implants).
Mon, 2011-07-25 06:58
#8
CodeBreaker
Re: Ectos, Mesh Inserts
[That would also explain why the wireless range of ectos and mesh goes from 1 km on populated habitats to 20 in other places (but I just ignore that range in the habitats, because, well, it's hard not to think something like the mobile phone repeaters we now have in the cities cannot be adapted to use inside an habitat to extend the range of the implants).]
Just as an aside, that is the intention of those ranges. The 1km range within a habitat is meant to model interference caused by big metal bulkheads or large metal buildings getting in the way. The only time it really matters is if the characters find themselves in habitat dead zones in which the Mesh is down. Otherwise the data just jumps along the public portions of the Mesh using devices within range to frog leap their signal down to whatever they want to connect to. They are intended to be, generally, ignorable.
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Mon, 2011-07-25 13:17
#9
Unity
Re: Ectos, Mesh Inserts
From what I figured? That the ecto and related computing technologies are utterly reliant on nanofabrication to be created with any sort of efficiency, due to the absolutely nanoscopic components (remember, the ecto is literally the size of a modern day credit card and able to hold the entire 20th century internet in itself with plenty of room to spare)
Still, thank you for that bit of extrapolation on the various sort of nanotechnology out there.
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Tue, 2011-07-26 14:47
#10
nezumi.hebereke
Re: Ectos, Mesh Inserts
what precisely do we mean by 'nano computers'? Computers moving data at the nano scale? Bear in mind that common magnetic disks are pushing around electrons (measured in nanometers) and flash drive storage work based on quantum concepts. However, the drives themselves are still large because we keep on cramming more on there. So at what point does a computer become 'nano'?
Tue, 2011-07-26 17:06
#11
Unity
Re: Ectos, Mesh Inserts
(shrugs)
I don't know.
How about 'components for computation that can only be constructed with any level of efficiency due to the precision of molecular manufacturing'?
Because beyond that, I do not know enough about computers to comment.
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Wed, 2011-07-27 04:12
#12
uwtartarus
Re: Ectos, Mesh Inserts
Firstly, Diamond Age was bloody brilliant. Just finished it.
Secondly, how are flash drives utilizing quantum mechanic concepts? I would be pretty impressed if the damn things I got dozens of are actually proto-quatum computer devices or something.
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Wed, 2011-07-27 04:32
#13
Arenamontanus
Re: Ectos, Mesh Inserts
Erasing flash cells occurs through tunnelling. There is an electrically insulated "floating gate" in each cell that either contains or does not contain electrons. When reading the cell the electric field of these affects whether current can flow from one side to another, and they can stay trapped for years. When the cell is erased a strong electric field is put above the floating gate and the electrons inside tunnel out, despite being trapped inside an insulator. (Writing occurs through another process, hot carrier injection, which is more classical)
Not *too* magical quantum, but still cool.
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Wed, 2011-07-27 14:04
#14
Unity
Re: Ectos, Mesh Inserts
Okay, that is impressive. I did not know this.
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