Dinosaurs In Space! | Eclipse Phase

Wed, 2011-04-06 06:44

#2

Lilith

Re: Dinosaurs In Space!

I think the proper term would be "shat bricks".

Wed, 2011-04-06 09:59

#3

InsidiousAlgorythm InsidiousAlgorythm's picture

Re: Dinosaurs In Space!

Axel the Chimeric wrote:
Oddly enough, this isn't about Sky Ark (though it very well could be, if transhumanity ever just forgets about that place and comes back in, oh, say, a few tens or hundreds of millions of years). Inspired by the Quintaglio Ascension Trilogy, I am pondering what might happen if transhumanity ever discovered living "artifacts" of Earth history on another world, which would be even more interesting if they were intelligent. How would transhumanity react if gatecrashers returning through a Pandora Gate came back with a very brightly coloured and feathered Raptor Sapien at their side? If a far-distant world is populated by species derived from Earth stock?

Or even other humans, raised on other worlds.

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Wed, 2011-04-06 11:48

#4

nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture

Re: Dinosaurs In Space!

You rock! Awesome idea. There's no reason why it can't happen. The slice of time we occupy on the geological time scale is so slim that it's quite questionable if we'd have left any evidence at all for future archeologists prior to the Industrial Revolution, and now the question is how will that evidence be interpreted. 100 Million Years erases a lot of evidence. If there are already gates, the dinos don't even need to reach our level of technology either. There would likely only be one sapient species (at a time, anyway). It seems quite reasonable that, if the world is suffering global holocaust in the form of an ice age, they'd just elect to go somewhere friendlier. The problem is, if they are as intelligent as we are, by now they should have moved completely beyond our technological comprehension (on to transcendence or... whatever). So the critters you're encountering are either intentionally rejecting technology, losing time due to time dilation or something, or just really stupid.

Wed, 2011-04-06 11:50

#5

nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture

Re: Dinosaurs In Space!

You rock! Awesome idea. There's no reason why it can't happen. The slice of time we occupy on the geological time scale is so slim that it's quite questionable if we'd have left any evidence at all for future archeologists prior to the Industrial Revolution, and now the question is how will that evidence be interpreted. 100 Million Years erases a lot of evidence. If there are already gates, the dinos don't even need to reach our level of technology either. There would likely only be one sapient species (at a time, anyway). It seems quite reasonable that, if the world is suffering global holocaust in the form of an ice age, they'd just elect to go somewhere friendlier. The problem is, if they are as intelligent as we are, by now they should have moved completely beyond our technological comprehension (on to transcendence or... whatever). So the critters you're encountering are either intentionally rejecting technology, losing time due to time dilation or something, or just really stupid.

Wed, 2011-04-06 11:52

#6

Tachi

Re: Dinosaurs In Space!

Or, they were created from whole cloth by the Titans, and sat there as an experiment.

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Wed, 2011-04-06 11:58

#7

Lilith

Re: Dinosaurs In Space!

nezumi.hebereke wrote:
So the critters you're encountering are either intentionally rejecting technology, losing time due to time dilation or something, or just really stupid.

Hey, there's no law saying that just because a species manages to travel into space and beyond, they can't all be complete morons. Anyone that's seen the DBZ Abridged version of Bardock: Father of Goku can certainly attest to this.

Wed, 2011-04-06 12:25

#8

Tachi

Re: Dinosaurs In Space!

Lilith wrote:
Anyone that's seen the DBZ Abridged version of Bardock: Father of Goku can certainly attest to this.

I have no idea what you just said.

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Wed, 2011-04-06 12:08

#9

Lilith

Re: Dinosaurs In Space!

That's probably for the best, dear.

Wed, 2011-04-06 18:34

#10

Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture

Re: Dinosaurs In Space!

nezumi.hebereke wrote:
You rock! Awesome idea.

Why thank you.

nezumi.hebereke wrote:
There would likely only be one sapient species (at a time, anyway). It seems quite reasonable that, if the world is suffering global holocaust in the form of an ice age, they'd just elect to go somewhere friendlier. The problem is, if they are as intelligent as we are, by now they should have moved completely beyond our technological comprehension (on to transcendence or... whatever). So the critters you're encountering are either intentionally rejecting technology, losing time due to time dilation or something, or just really stupid.

Now here's where I have a fun suggestion: There's nothing saying that the dinos had to be intelligent when they left, or that they left of their own volition. Transhumanity's already started seeding life on other worlds; grabbing things from hither and thither to take them elsewhere. Why would any other race be any different?

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Wed, 2011-04-06 18:58

#11

The Green Slime The Green Slime's picture

Re: Dinosaurs In Space!

Axel the Chimeric wrote:
Now here's where I have a fun suggestion: There's nothing saying that the dinos had to be intelligent when they left, or that they left of their own volition. Transhumanity's already started seeding life on other worlds; grabbing things from hither and thither to take them elsewhere. Why would any other race be any different?

The Olaf dyson sphere is one likely example of this. I'm sure there are few more instances of it in Gatecrashing.

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Thu, 2011-04-07 02:01

#12

sjmcc13

Re: Dinosaurs In Space!

Tachi wrote:
Lilith wrote:
Anyone that's seen the DBZ Abridged version of Bardock: Father of Goku can certainly attest to this.
I have no idea what you just said.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIDHDif7fmo[/url] enjoy ;)

Thu, 2011-04-07 03:01

#13

Tachi

Re: Dinosaurs In Space!

:D Oh god, that was funny! "Useless ass psychic powers!" :D

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Thu, 2011-04-07 06:44

#14

Lilith

Re: Dinosaurs In Space!

"I can see the futuuuuuuuuuuure! ...Oh nooooooooooo!" Ah, it gets me everytime...

Thu, 2011-04-07 09:10

#15

nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture

Re: Dinosaurs In Space!

Axel the Chimeric wrote:
Now here's where I have a fun suggestion: There's nothing saying that the dinos had to be intelligent when they left, or that they left of their own volition.

That's not a bad idea. The point there then is while they may not have changed much in intelligence, they likely would have changed morphologically. Remember, mammals were basically possums when the dinosaurs 'left'.

Thu, 2011-04-07 14:45

#16

Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture

Re: Dinosaurs In Space!

nezumi.hebereke wrote:
That's not a bad idea. The point there then is while they may not have changed much in intelligence, they likely would have changed morphologically. Remember, mammals were basically possums when the dinosaurs 'left'.

Indeed; it'd certainly be a fun thought experiment to imagine what they have changed into. They might be intelligent, they might not, but they'd certainly be different. [url=http://dresdencodak.com/2009/09/07/the-sleepwalkers/]Dresden Codak did something on that idea...[/url] It'd be particularly interesting to toy with.

The Green Slime wrote:
The Olaf dyson sphere is one likely example of this. I'm sure there are few more instances of it in Gatecrashing.

That's definitely going to be my next game idea, actually; players as explorers, sent to the Olaf Dyson Sphere, to explore its exterior. It's larger than Earth, by more than two orders of magnitude in fact, and so can host a wiiiide variety of biomes. They can't take an orbital route to get quickly around and aren't being paid to anyway. They're given a few hundred thousand credits worth of equipment, pointed in a direction, and sent to thoroughly document biomes, identify threats/dangers, and prepare the way for future scientific teams. To encourage them to take chances, they are fighting to earn credits. The trip around the Dyson Sphere is about 6.5 million km and, if they complete their mission, they get 1 credit per ten kilometres traveled and a bonus for every new species they find or base they build. They'll be very rich people by the time they make it back to the system... If they make it back.

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Thu, 2011-04-07 19:02

#17

The Green Slime The Green Slime's picture

Re: Dinosaurs In Space!

Axel the Chimeric wrote:
They can't take an orbital route to get quickly around and aren't being paid to anyway. They're given a few hundred thousand credits worth of equipment, pointed in a direction, and sent to thoroughly document biomes, identify threats/dangers, and prepare the way for future scientific teams. To encourage them to take chances, they are fighting to earn credits. The trip around the Dyson Sphere is about 6.5 million km and, if they complete their mission, they get 1 credit per ten kilometres traveled and a bonus for every new species they find or base they build. They'll be very rich people by the time they make it back to the system... If they make it back.

Q: [Assuming Olaf's existence is public knowledge in your game] Wouldn't there be droves of Darwin-wannabe crashers lining up to set out on such a pilgrimage for free, or even paying for chance to do so? I shouldn't think you'd really need to further incentivise people to explore of a dyson sphere containing life from all over the galaxy. People would be selling their grandmothers and her backups just a chance at a one-way ticket.

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Thu, 2011-04-07 20:32

#18

Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture

Re: Dinosaurs In Space!

There very well might be, but the best trained people to do such a massive publicity stunt are not going to be them; they're already going to be working for other companies that are paying them very nicely to do their job there. There'd be lots of people (myself included, really) who'd more than happily run headlong into exploring Olaf for free, but would there be skilled people willing to do it? Would those people be willing to work for a corp interested in making data recovered proprietary? Would they be willing to spend years, possibly decades, on this one project? Those factors skim it down considerably. That said, I do love the idea of huge numbers of people going out on these massive journeys to discover and map this world; Darwin-wannabe's... It makes me imagine a whole micro-industry popping up as a result. The largest exodus through a gate ever, with thousands pooling money to pay for gate-time to travel through. A thriving cottage industry springs up, on the Olaf side of the gate. Eager explorers, looking to earn a bounty for new discoveries, flood through, as do many others happy to act as a home base and sell products or services.

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Fri, 2011-04-08 19:11

#19

Sunchaser

Re: Dinosaurs In Space!

About the Dino-sapient's techno advancement... Is there any reason that they can't simply plateau and sit there for ten million years? Not every intelligent being will be equipped for or lucky enough for continual technological improvement. The Neanderthals seem like a good example of a poeple who achieved a certain technology and ceased improving their tools.

Sat, 2011-04-09 06:17

#20

nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture

Re: Dinosaurs In Space!

Not counting outside influences, it would be almost unheard of for not only an entire species, but an entire Class to remain almost universally unchanged for such a long period of time. We do have some examples (crocodilians), but their lack of divergence is due to a lot of environmental factors that permitted mammals to flourish while they were largely killed off.

Sat, 2011-04-09 08:56

#21

Thunderwave Thunderwave's picture

Re: Dinosaurs In Space!

InsidiousAlgorythm wrote:
Or even other humans, raised on other worlds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf9dAFjPk04 :P Sorry for the aside, I now return you to your regular discussion of Dinosaurs in SPAAAAAAAAAAACCCCEEEE!!! (Or as I call them, Dinosaucers ;) )

Sat, 2011-04-09 10:55

#22

Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture

Re: Dinosaurs In Space!

Sunchaser wrote:
About the Dino-sapient's techno advancement... Is there any reason that they can't simply plateau and sit there for ten million years? Not every intelligent being will be equipped for or lucky enough for continual technological improvement. The Neanderthals seem like a good example of a poeple who achieved a certain technology and ceased improving their tools.

It's possible. Olduvai Gorge shows a pre-modern-human toolmaking tradition that lasted for longer than civilization or even modern humans. I just imagine that it'd be rather unlikely that the trend of increasing intelligence wouldn't continue, as better problem solving ability and forward-thinking led to better survival rates. That said, intelligence isn't an inevitability. It might evolve, it might never evolve. Dinosapiens could be a more recent evolution than humans. Or their fundamentally different mental architecture has made the development of human-like society-building intellect slow. All in all, there's plenty of reasons why, really.

nezumi.hebereke wrote:
Not counting outside influences, it would be almost unheard of for not only an entire species, but an entire Class to remain almost universally unchanged for such a long period of time. We do have some examples (crocodilians), but their lack of divergence is due to a lot of environmental factors that permitted mammals to flourish while they were largely killed off.

They've probably diverged into all manners of forms in the ~165 million years they've had to develop. Given birds, though, they're likely still recognizable as related to their ancestral forms.

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Sat, 2011-04-09 11:34

#23

Tango

Re: Dinosaurs In Space!

Well, if the conditions were the same as in Earth, evolution might make the same choises and produce similar species. Also check this out http://www.seonode.com/blog/scientist-at-nasa-finds-evidence-of-alien-li... the idea that earth was seeded might not be that stupid theory after all, and the oort cloud reaching 3 light years out (?) might translate to material exchange between star sytems. Land the same bacteria to two (almost) identical worlds, and you might get chockingly similar results.

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