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Generation Gap

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Prime Mover Prime Mover's picture
Generation Gap
Been giving some thought lately to some implications of immortality. The idea of never losing great minds, entertainers, writers, actors etc. This could lead to some epic procrastination. But I also foresee a lack of nostalgia. We have a tendency to worship people after we've lost them. If we never lose them, do they just fade from public view? I'm thinking we'd start to see a well defined generational gap. Instead of seeing people divided by religion, race or other any other factor I could imagine we'll start seeing generational divisions. Having their period of time in common and seeing it discarded by the next generation. Generations separating themselves in there own neighborhoods with there own entertainment, stars, humor, fashion etc. For a younger generation trying to infiltrate an enclave of an older generation it would require a great deal of research. Perhaps in EP this is only beginning to happen but I could imagine after several generations these divisions would cause an almost siege mentality. I can certainly envision an age range rep score for older generations.
"The difference between truth and fiction, people expect fiction to make sense."
Lilith Lilith's picture
Re: Generation Gap
So in other words, just like now, only the previous generation doesn't ever die off.
TBRMInsanity TBRMInsanity's picture
Re: Generation Gap
You young wipersnappers have it easy. Back in my day I had to compile my mind into my morph manually. Now a computer does it for you. We also didn't have farcasting, you had to transport your backup in a ship. It could take years before your backup arrived at its destination. Tisk tisk, so young and inexperienced.
Jovian Motto: Your mind is original. Preserve it. Your body is a temple. Maintain it. Immortality is an illusion. Forget it.
OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
Re: Generation Gap
Alternately; immortality might cause the death of popculture. I think that cultural evolution is driven by new and youthful ideas that are a response to the change in living conditions and social situations brought on by advancing tech and science. In EP the tech curve should be advancing at the rate of the post singularity phase of human evolution. It will probably be too fast for broad memes and social movements to keep up with. Also, in the west, we're used to the anomaly Post Babyboom population explosions creating a large number of young people. There will never be more young people than old people in EP. The older generation won't be marginalized the younger generations will have to struggle to catch up. Culture or art will be even more influenced by the past as previous generations do not fade but grow ever stronger and influential. I think this could mean that popular art and broadly accepted culture will be... Better. I don't really have the words for it, but I think the things that are universally loved and accepted will be so because they have "broad human appeal" they will be things that "Ring True" across generations and remain relevant regardless of time or setting. New art/ideas will have to call back to that pool of culture that has been found to be "True" in earlier times. This has already happened. Everyone knows who Homer, Shakespear, Bach and Michelangelo are. They will be relevant as long as there are humans. Possibly those aren't good examples because their art is so basic or intrinsically human that contemporary art can't help but be informed by them. Maybe it would be better to compare Picaso/Jackson Pollock/Andy Warhol, or Gershwin/Beatles/Trent Reznor.

Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

Shards Shards's picture
Re: Generation Gap
I'd think that there would be more of a Event Gap more than a Generation Gap. Since actual age is becoming less and less of an issue, more value may start to be placed in experience. Those who still remember Earth before the fall Versus people who where born in space. People who survived the "Hypercorp war of Venus"....(made up on the spot because it's a little out of context to say the World War 1 survivors) Versus those who barely know of the wars. Some major social/cultrual event that one group has experienced and been impacted by where another group has not and cannot experience that same event, which would give the second group (or generation) less context in which to relate to the other group.
OneTrikPony wrote:
Culture or art will be even more influenced by the past as previous generations do not fade but grow ever stronger and influential. I think this could mean that popular art and broadly accepted culture will be... Better. I don't really have the words for it, but I think the things that are universally loved and accepted will be so because they have "broad human appeal" they will be things that "Ring True" across generations and remain relevant regardless of time or setting. New art/ideas will have to call back to that pool of culture that has been found to be "True" in earlier times. This has already happened. Everyone knows who Homer, Shakespear, Bach and Michelangelo are. They will be relevant as long as there are humans. Possibly those aren't good examples because their art is so basic or intrinsically human that contemporary art can't help but be informed by them. Maybe it would be better to compare Picaso/Jackson Pollock/Andy Warhol, or Gershwin/Beatles/Trent Reznor.
I'd have to disagree a bit here (politely, of course). "Everyone educated knows who Homer, Shakespeare, .....etc" It's truly terrifying to realize that so many people do not know who these people are and (more tragically) their contributions to society. But as you said (OneTrikPony) they may not be the best examples due to their intrinsically human relevance. But are the people of EP really "human" anymore? Maybe now, it's only been a decade or so since the fall, but 100 years? 1000? In some respects the "death" of the older generation is a good thing. It opens a door for the future generations to make their mark on society and possibly introduce new, updated ideas. While the past may help provide a good foundation to build upon (and it's only a "may help" some ideas are just bad to the core), humanity cannot focus on the old cultural/ societal norms without running the risk of stagnation (which I think is probably the bigger danger of immortality). Please forgive my ramblings, the topic brought up so many "what if's" that I struggled to stay coherent (successfully or otherwise, I'll let everyone else judge).
______________________________________________ Any comment resembling wisdom either direct or implied was just an accident.....nothing to see here.....move along....
Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture
Re: Generation Gap
I see a very curious mixed blessing, the idea of which can be summed up in this picture: [img]http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/487/ifoughtnazis4743672.jpg[/img] With being forced to think for the long term, extensive amounts of free time, and an unparalleled access to news/events information, it strikes me that this will be a time that'll be great for politics and harmful for it at the same time. The human propensity for self-delusion in the form of nostalgia is frankly astonishing, which is a problem; humans frequently tend to think of some time as better than the one they lived in, and it's usually the one they grew up in or some time shortly before that. However, with such long lives and immense amounts of data available, and having lived through tumultuous times, transhumans have the advantage of experience too. They've seen the politics of the past and can be extremely aware of the politics of the present with a mental reflex. For the wealthy, they can download an Economics and Political History Understanding package to their Skillware and very quickly find themselves informed enough to make rational, reasonable decisions on many policies. So transhuman politics in the era of AF 10, or even further, are likely very hard to recognize today; the voting base is usually smaller, wealthier, healthier, and far more well informed. They're also far more forward thinking. This sounds great. They're also likely given to xenophobia, resistant to change, and highly cynical/skeptical. The younger generations will lack their parent's experience with the world that came before (many Fall survivors remember the world of dying nation-states) and the resulting ultra-cynicism, and will grow up in a world without any of the problems we know today. I wouldn't imagine this will be a big problem; not because it won't be, it'll be a really cool and interesting one to toy with, but because transhumanity, at this sort of pace, will evolve into posthumanity long before it becomes an immense problem.
nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture
Re: Generation Gap
In my play, Shard's observation seems to play true. People without a particular experience just 'can't get' those who have it. I think the 'distance' of time will change to one of space. If you're stuck on Mars, yeah, you'll be watching Rambo XXII and Police Academy LIX because that's what the people with money remember and enjoy watching. However if you're hanging around Pluto, you're insulated enough that you will need your own, local culture, which is likely to be more dynamic. The more you're ability to isolate yourself, the less you're held down by the chains of existant culture.
flatpointer flatpointer's picture
Re: Generation Gap
Cool thread! I have to disagree that immortality would increase the amount of procrastination most people display - obviously there'd be exceptions to this rule (and for a literary example, you could check out Alastair's Reynolds' House of the Suns - some of the immortals in there deal with geological time and their own occasional geological procrastination). But in general I don't think we avoid wasting time due to knowledge of our mortality. For most people (which I can think of), it doesn't seem death is a topic of daily thought, much less a reason for doing things now and not later. Upon re-reading the initial post this may be more 'immortality would allow epic procrastination' rather than how I take it above, 'immortality would make more people procrastinate.' Not sure if I'm responding to the correct intention.