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price of infomorph slavery

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mack2028 mack2028's picture
price of infomorph slavery
Let me say first that I understand that having these thoughts makes me a bad person, I have dealt with that. It mentions in the book several time that infomorph slavery exists but never says how much the actual cost of say, buying someone off of the dead shelf and getting them reprogrammed? What is the cost of buying a basic AGI with slave protocols already installed?
fellowhoodlum fellowhoodlum's picture
Re: price of infomorph slavery
CodeBreaker CodeBreaker's picture
Re: price of infomorph slavery
Firstly, technically it is not slavery. It is indentured servitude. It is a very important distinction, as one implies outright ownership of a person, while the other is essentially a renting of their self for a prolonged period of time. Secondly, it hardly makes you a bad person, there are cases in the Eclipse Phase universe where, honestly, indentured servitude is one of the most efficient means of dealing with a problem (Too many people, not enough bodies). To answer your actual question, it is not, as you say, properly laid out at any time in canon. However there have been numerous discussions on the matter on these very forums, and a quick use of the search function will bring those up. I am of the mind that the purchase of an indentures contract is at least an Expensive purchase. One might be able to rent their contract for much less, but to actually be transferred ownership costs a decent amount of credit. First you have to be able to afford the lawyer(s') to facilitate the transfer of ownership. Then you have to have a “freedom wage” ready, or you at least have to prove that you have the means to acquire it (Typically this would be whatever morph proscribed in the contract, and could range from a Moderate purchase for a Case, to an Expensive purchase for an Exalt.) Then, depending on your physical location, you may have to prove to authorities that you can supply a bare minimum level of care for the indenture. This could include things such as living space, entertainment facilities, mental and physical health care. Most of the time when you are dealing with indentures you are within the inner system. The PC has a very real reason for making sure that indentures are not abused (At least by the general public, the ruling hypercorps are an entirely different matter). The PC economy basically depends on a constant influx of cheap labor. If word goes out that signing on as an indenture not only results in losing 10 years of your life (And honestly, what is 10 years when you are immortal?) but also presents a good chance of 10 years of constant abuse then that labor pool is going to dry up fast. So, at least for the general public, you are probably looking at a fairly large investment. If you happen to be a hypercorp with connections with the ruling class, and enough lawyer backup to keep any abuse under wraps? Much cheaper. P.S, on reprogramming indentures. Yeah, that would probably be against their contract and a violation of numerous mental preservation laws. The Inner System in general seems to be against people tinkering with other peoples brains against their will, at least when it isn't them doing it at least. The Outer System is a whole different can of worms. Reprogram someones mind out there and you are looking at being punted out an airlock. AGI specifically, in the Inner System they are basically either illegal or considered legal persons, so you are going to run into problems there as well. Note, this is my particular view on the matter. Different people on these forums have very differing views. I am sure they will pop up soon enough :)
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Yerameyahu Yerameyahu's picture
Re: price of infomorph slavery
I mean, it *could* (easily) be slavery. If that's what the OP is asking about, how can we say it's not? :) Especially with brainwashing.
CodeBreaker CodeBreaker's picture
Re: price of infomorph slavery
True, I jumped the gun on assuming the OP meant indentured rather than straight out ego slavery such as that done by the criminal groups. However I would actually put forward that even then, you are looking at both an expensive and extremely volatile set of circumstances. You have to smuggle the enslaved ego into whatever environment you want them in. PC controlled space habitats are basically right out, as is much of the rest of the inner system. You might get away with it for a still reasonable cost on Mars I guess. You have to keep the egos away from the authorities at all costs, one peep out of someones mouth and you have an entire Overwatch division coming down on you hard. No one wants to think that it could be their kid/husband/parent who has been fork napped and is being forced into slavery. Overwatch is going to come down hard on anyone who even looks like they are involved, even if they only do it to score browney points. Easier to just hire yourself a short term indenture, or maybe an AI who can do everything you need. Or just fork yourself.
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Yerameyahu Yerameyahu's picture
Re: price of infomorph slavery
I agree, of course. :)
mack2028 mack2028's picture
Re: price of infomorph slavery
I actually did mean outright slavery, up to the level that they (said infoslave) may not be fully aware of it. If you pulled a "dead" backup, I.E. that of someone who has never been revived since before the fall and reprogrammed them to unquestioningly follow your orders they may not even be able to consider why they are doing it. In addition buying a beta fork from a criminal backup service could go unnoticed by the original ego. As far as the law goes, AGIs aren't considered "people" in some parts. What authority is going to ask you whether someone is working for you as a favor, because you are paying them, or you just shoved a leash in their brain.
nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture
Re: price of infomorph slavery
Literally reprogramming an infomorph or AGI to be your slave and keeping it around as a pet probably will cost you more reputation than the infomorph cost to purchase in the first place. I would tend to argue that an infomorph costs between Low and Moderate (depending on the source), but being labelled as a brain-meddling slave-owner costs Expensive or Expensive+ (in the rep economy).
crizh crizh's picture
Re: price of infomorph slavery
Perception is of course everything in a Reputation economy. You can only lose rep for acts people are aware off. I've been toying with introducing some black-hat ego hacking into the backstory of the multiple-personality character I am currently playing. The character is a first generation Ego who suffered from dementia prior to her first re-sleeving. I had been thinking that wiping another Ego's memories completely and then implanting the base line memories of a dementia victim waking in a new sleeve might be a great way of creating an Ego that was completely convinced that it was somebody else entirely whilst still retaining it's very useful skillset. A few carefully constructed psychotherapeutic blocks ....
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Yerameyahu Yerameyahu's picture
Re: price of infomorph slavery
I still think buying a person should cost more than Low or Moderate, from a game perspective. A lot more. :) Even if the initial outlay is so negligible, there should be significant 'white elephant' costs of actually running and using them (humanitarian stuff, I guess). Otherwise, it just gets silly.
mack2028 mack2028's picture
Re: price of infomorph slavery
crizh wrote:
Perception is of course everything in a Reputation economy. You can only lose rep for acts people are aware off. I've been toying with introducing some black-hat ego hacking into the backstory of the multiple-personality character I am currently playing. The character is a first generation Ego who suffered from dementia prior to her first re-sleeving. I had been thinking that wiping another Ego's memories completely and then implanting the base line memories of a dementia victim waking in a new sleeve might be a great way of creating an Ego that was completely convinced that it was somebody else entirely whilst still retaining it's very useful skillset. A few carefully constructed psychotherapeutic blocks ....
Keeping a few "patients" under the guise of there needing "treatment" and "trading" you there service prevents people realizing that they are brain hacked because they are supposed to be. Also you could be seen as a great humanitarian for taking care of them.
crizh crizh's picture
Re: price of infomorph slavery
Oh certainly buying an unwilling Ego ought to be a major investment. Not least of all because you are buying it with G-rep. I have found that if you want to go that route that you will find plenty of opportunities in play to acquire egos by other means. In our game I recently acquired a short-term lease on delta forks of several prisoners. I think I bargained them down to about 8000 Cr for the lot. The rest of the team wanted to shoot them in the back of the head and destroy their stacks so it didn't look like a bad deal really. I think the sort of post-death paradigm of EP is something that we as players take some time to wrap our heads around and really start to explore the possibilities.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
mack2028 mack2028's picture
Re: price of infomorph slavery
Though, something most people don't realize about criminals is that because of there lack of the standard morality the bonds of friendship and loyalty are much more important. In theory having a high G-rep means you have committed crimes with these people or at least helped them commit crimes and they will help you out. Now, giving you copies of egos doesn't even really cost them time, so why wouldn't they give them to an old friend.