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Spray armor practicality questions (and armor layering in general to an extent)

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Googleshng Googleshng's picture
Spray armor practicality questions (and armor layering in general to an extent)
I just finished reading the core rules cover to cover, generally getting ready for my first campaign here (and as I side note, I'm seriously amazed at how straight-forwardly playable everything looks in general, particularly compared to, say, GURPS Transhuman Space). Hitting the description of Spray Armor stopped me in my tracks though. Firstly just because it's one of the more blatantly fetishistic blocks of text in the book, but then I noticed the stats on it were 2/2... and the cost was Low rather than Trivial, and that really, it has no real viable layering options. Is there any point to it besides kinky novelty? Or something I'm missing that makes it less suicidal as the armor of choice for people who want kinky novelty? As I understand it, while you can theoretically wear every single listed piece of armor in the book simultaneously if you're willing to take an 80% penalty to everything, the following options are what you can get before hitting penalties: - Clothes and a Vest: 9/10 - Light Armor: 10/10 - Heavy Armor: 13/13 - Crash Suit: 4/6 - Spray Armor: 2/2 It's also worth noting here that practically every weapon in the book has at least 2 points of armor penetration, and most of the exceptions still have 1. Unless you're combining it with something else, it's more or less completely worthless... and frankly it's much harder to justify than with anything else. Riot shields and helmets are going to be out of place with most looks, sure, but throwing on a second skin under armored clothing seems perfectly sensible, but wearing a lycra body stocking over full body latex paint seems a bit weird, and defeats the stylistic reason to go with the spray to begin with, and smart skin apparently also goes for direct skin contact, making it absolutely impossible to combine the two. That's another +4/+4 we can give the other four options up there over Spray if we're committed to dressing in layers. Rationalizing any mods is tricky too. Does chameleon coating work as an aerosol? Now, granted, not all armor configurations are sensible in most situations. If you're heading to a meeting in a bar where you're expecting an ambush (or trying to set one up), you're not going to go in wearing a full armored suit, and you're going to want to leave the vest at home. That's still a 3/4 vs. a 2/2. Or a 7/8 if you dress in layers. Plus it's less conspicuous. Armored clothing (and anything you wear under it) passes for standard dress, but a candy coated exhibitionist is clearly showing what slight edge they're getting. Smart skin by itself has it beat on both protective value and making for a convincing nudist. You're also losing out to clothing since, frankly, if you're expecting a fight to break out, spray armor kinda leaves you with a complete lack of pockets to conceal a sidearm in. And all this still isn't addressing how it's (marginally) costlier than various more viable options, can't be re-used (at least, my interpretation is that the cost is listed for a single coating's worth), degrades to nothing over the course of a day, and frankly has to take a whole lot longer to get on than the other options, and probably needs a second set of hands if you aren't unusually limber. Getting it on in a hurry with trouble on the way is going to cause a distraction for anyone else in the room too I'm sure. Now, granted, none of this takes away from the appeal taking your favorite pleasure pod out on the town skirting the narrowest definition of being as fully clothed as local standards allow, or making everyone jealous of the uniforms you came up with for your fury bodyguard squad, but at this point, I have to wonder why this is listed in the armor section, rather than everyday technology?
nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture
Re: Spray armor practicality questions (and armor layering ...
You are escaping in a drop pod. There is enough space for yourself plus .2 m^3 equipment. What do you carry? Spray armor is your 'emergency backup armor'. It's the sort of thing you keep in the glove box of your shuttle.
Yerameyahu Yerameyahu's picture
Re: Spray armor practicality questions (and armor layering ...
Right. Not everything in RPG gear lists is optimal. Spray Armor is a wacky sci-fi widget that prepared people wouldn't need. 2/2 armor (or whatever) is better than 0/0; that's -2 DV if they don't have AP. :) As for the aesthetic, I think you'll find that Smart Skin, Second Skin, and activated Vac Suits are all painted-on tight.
Googleshng Googleshng's picture
Re: Spray armor practicality questions (and armor layering ...
Yeah, the fact that other armor options can work just as well if not better on the slut front (at the same price, with the benefits mentioned above) really doesn't help justify spray armor's existence. I also don't really see it working as part of an emergency supply kit. I don't see how a spray can is going to take up less space than whatever one carries un-deployed smart skin in, and I'd hope any emergency kit would include some sort of vac suit or crash suit, which you aren't going to want to strip off to spritz yourself down. Plus, again, it's a short-lived one-shot deal, which provides absolutely no protection against the majority of damage sources, and marginal protection against what's left. You'd be better off odds wise just packing extra food or water. There's nothing wrong with having equipment which nobody in their right mind would ever use on purely mechanical grounds, but there has to be some sort of in-game justification. This is overpriced because it's marketed to trendy celebrities. This is worthless junk because the police state confiscates anything stronger. This is actually a ceremonial weapon not really designed to see real use. Etc. What has me baffled here though is that I really can't think of any situation where spray armor here is a practical choice. The only hint as to who might actually use it from the description is that "The color and feel of the armor can be adjusted with electric currents and additional polymers, making it popular among some socialite and nightlife scenes." OK, I can see it as a fashion thing, but I assume if it's just for the look, non-protective color changing body paint also exists, and is cheaper and easier to come by. The armored variant only makes sense if... you're expecting to get in a fist fight with the other strippers you work with or something, which seems like just way too specific a case to warrant listing in an otherwise tight, efficient, generalized equipment list. Now, if it was something with half-decent stats which was fully incompatible with everything else, I could see that, or if it came with a free choice of one of the various _____ coating armor mods, or if there was some in-game reference to oh, zero-G all girl body-painted wrestling matches as a popular form of entertainment, it'd be fully justified. As written though, it's just a prohibitively expensive novelty that's more trouble than it's worth as far as I can tell.
Yerameyahu Yerameyahu's picture
Re: Spray armor practicality questions (and armor layering ...
I agree. :) But, I still think that *is* the purpose: weird sci-fi fashion/armor widget.
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Spray armor practicality questions (and armor layering ...
Hmm, what about spray chameleon coating? Spray immunogenic system? Spray fireproofing? Spray-on coatings might not be very powerful, but they might be useful things to have in the utility belt.
Extropian
Yerameyahu Yerameyahu's picture
Re: Spray armor practicality questions (and armor layering ...
I wonder if those work. :/ RAW, probably not, although I certainly wouldn't say they couldn't. It's nano-magic. :) It also sounds like a useful idea, and the cost of those mods as *single-use* means that you're certainly not imbalancing anything.
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Spray armor practicality questions (and armor layering ...
Yerameyahu wrote:
I wonder if those work.
Well, chameleon skins exist in EP as a bioenhancement. It is not that hard to imagine a spray-on mixture that contains amorphous computing, metamaterial flakes and the necessary communications. For fireproofing, consider that alum and other flame retardants already work somewhat. For heavy-duty fireproofing, you want some coating that has an extremely low thermal conductivity like sapphire bubbles of vacuum, and maybe some evaporation cooling (some bubbles in the coating contain substances that require a lot of heat to boil off, and burst above a certain temperature, keeping things cool for a short while). A spray-on guardian nanocoating seems entirely reasonable. It is the hive manufacturing more that is lacking, but being able to coat oneself or objects in an emergency is very useful. Maybe the hive is in the can, and one need to reapply it from time to time. Overall, it is in the realm of nanomagic, but it is not that far away from the stuff you find in Robert Freitas' papers. Other interesting sprays are holo-screens-in-a-can, phased-array-lasers-in-a-can, sensors-in-a-can and jammer-in-a-can.
Extropian
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: Spray armor practicality questions (and armor layering ...
The real question here is whether usefulness should be a gauge for whether something exists, when that isn't even a common gauge in today's world. I've seen everything from "parachutes designed for leaping out of a skyscraper" to "artificial pet testicles so your pet doesn't feel uncomfortable about being neutered". Even if spray-on armor isn't an effective tool, who's to say that it won't have any popularity? Maybe it's a hit with the transhuman-nudist crowd, or has become a protective replacement for paint-on clothing.
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
Yerameyahu Yerameyahu's picture
Re: Spray armor practicality questions (and armor layering ...
Yeah, I did mean 'work by RAW', Arena. :)
Googleshng Googleshng's picture
Re: Spray armor practicality questions (and armor layering ...
Yes, but see, this comes back to the cost issue. A single can of spray armor costs as much as smart skin, which provides superior protection, is actually an even better option for safety conscious nudists, can be used as much as you'd like, and provides better protection, especially considering that there aren't any penalties layering it with other armor should the mood strike you. And again, I could totally see the utility if the various coating mods could be built in with no change to the price. Yeah it's still the same cost as the equivalent mod to a set of armored clothing with less protection offered and a one-shot deal, but it's highly conditional and I could see carrying around one of every flavor just in case they're ever needed as more practical than carrying around several sets of clothes, particularly since you can get head to toe coverage. As written though? That kicks the cost-per-can all the way up to moderate, which is way too costly to be worth it.
King Shere King Shere's picture
Re: Spray armor practicality questions (and armor layering ...
To me it seems convenient for Household use & other temporary protection needs. Replaces the need to suit up with protective gear & rubber gloves when doing dishes, getting honey from a angry beehive and other chores that have hazard risks to them. As for why its listed in the armour section, well the premise is that the players are special ops & if there exist a military use for household items, its good to list its common military application.
nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture
Re: Spray armor practicality questions (and armor layering ...
Also bear in mind, not everything is for the player characters. If I'm Joe Suit, I may have a can around 'just in case'.
Googleshng Googleshng's picture
Re: Spray armor practicality questions (and armor layering ...
... just in case a fight suddenly breaks out? At which point he will immediately stop, drop anything he's holding, strip naked, and spend another good half a minute at least spraying it up and down everywhere? Resulting in a coating which really won't even slow down a stray bullet at all (except for a few edge cases)? Seems like that time would be better spent fleeing the scene. And, once again, at the exact same price/availability, you can pick up a little nanite hive, carry or wear it around more easily than a can, and the second you think you're in danger, one quick panicked thought and you're instantly covered in a different flavor of candy coating, which provides better protection, won't leave the back of your head exposed, and doesn't get all bunched up around the joints making it extremely awkward to don any further protective gear you may be handed by someone, or are already wearing. PLUS you can just recall it back to the hive when the coast is clear, rather than having to go find some nano-turpentine, or wait a full day for it to flake off, and then have to go buy a new can for any future emergencies.
Yerameyahu Yerameyahu's picture
Re: Spray armor practicality questions (and armor layering ...
No, in case you need to do the dishes. It was explained above. :) Seems like as good a reason as possible.
Googleshng Googleshng's picture
Re: Spray armor practicality questions (and armor layering ...
Yeah, I could totally see that one. Seems to clash with what little in-world information there is to go by (high fashion that's also protective!) to be using it in place of rubber gloves though... and makes it even harder to rationalize why the cost isn't Trivial. Again, plenty of easy ways to mod this into something half-rational. I'm mainly wondering what the heck the thought is behind it in the rules-as-written.
nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture
Re: Spray armor practicality questions (and armor layering ...
Googleshng wrote:
... just in case a fight suddenly breaks out?
No, in case he needs to go outside of the habitat. Whether you're going into a vacuum or a Martian sandstorm, additional protection beyond just a jumpsuit and canned air is going to be appreciated.
Yerameyahu Yerameyahu's picture
Re: Spray armor practicality questions (and armor layering ...
There really are very few things that are Trivial. Possibly it's just an expensive product.
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Spray armor practicality questions (and armor layering ...
Yerameyahu wrote:
There really are very few things that are Trivial. Possibly it's just an expensive product.
Some things are much cheaper than they would be without subsidies. Why are Medichines [low] and all morphs equipped with stacks by default? Because all (surviving) polities realized there was great benefit in having protection-in-depth of the citizens.
Extropian
King Shere King Shere's picture
Re: Spray armor practicality questions (and armor layering ...
Its description on page 312 says that's its a spray can, and that its popular with socialites and night life scene. So installed showers are probably optional. [i]This product offers the latest in comfort, sensitivity, protection with adjustable ribbing... Recommended when stripping down for some *ahem* night activity. [/i]
Yerameyahu Yerameyahu's picture
Re: Spray armor practicality questions (and armor layering ...
Agreed, Arenamontanous. :) I'm constantly astonished at the incredible usefulness of *so* many [Low] things. To the point that you can't imagine not starting every character with all of them.