For the love of god, please don't restart the spacecraft/combat debate! Search on the forums for that one :) I'd like to see more digital tools for layers andGM's alike. A friend and I are starting to work on a NPC generator and I'm helping with a character manager, but there's lots of opportunity in that space. I agree that a grand campaign could be fun, especially for those of us who don't have the time to build one out.

urdith wrote:

Octomorph wrote:

For the love of god, please don't restart the spacecraft/combat debate! Search on the forums for that one :)

Restart the space combat thread? Sure! I have this detailed system involving active calculation of trajectories... ^_^

And with my targeting equations we will have an excuse of using *fourth* roots! (I always loved how old 2300AD used a cube root in the GM section) What I would love to see is more about organisations and networks.

Yes, detailing of organisations: their agendas, internal factions, prominent personalities, relationships to other factions, etc. Something along the lines of CP2020's Corporation Report books which I always found tremendously useful. My only complaint about the material so far released for EP is it paints in fairly broad strokes, which I accept is necessary given the amazing scope of the setting. Eventually though I'd love to see material that takes some of the legwork out of detailing the game's day-to-day world - how do 'regular' people live? what are the major trends in transhuman culture, entertainment and fashion? what are the big mesh communities and simulspaces? details of the panoply of goods and services, from forking and backup providers, space-travel, everyday product lines, specific vehicles from lemons to hot-rods, etc.

I would like to see something about the lifestyles, careers, etc. A pure fluff book with just enough crunch in the end to make it playable

Rcarter wrote:

--A full 200pg official EC campaign I'd really like to see this. I remember watching an interview with Rob Boyle and Brian Cross at GenCon 2009. They said that they planned on moving the plot arc of EC forward in supplemental products after they covered some of the more basic setting material. Personally I'd really like to see a 'Masks of Nyarlathotep' level premade campaign from the creators. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSA3k9adrFs

This! A thousand times this! Every great rpg must have one.

If 'Eclipse Phase' refers to the stage of infection where the cell is infect but doesn't show outwards signs, then…. well, I'd like to see what happens a little down the timeline and find out what this infection is and what happens when it erupts ! Space combat: hehe, sorry I didn't know about former arguments on the subject. FWIW I think Diaspora gets it's right: it uses a one-dimensional axis for space combat. The only critical things are range and speed - your absolutely vector isn't really worth keeping track of. It's a neat approach, and certainly plenty simple enough !

I agree that a PDF about factions and sub-factions (I call them Phyles, after Stephenson's Diamond Age) and claves

Wyldknight wrote:

I would want to see more info on PSI, both fluff and crunch. When I first read it my immediate reaction was "Awesome! I can make River Tam." But upon execution it was much less River Tam and more...I don't even know but it wasn't as useful. I've made multiple characters as comparison and I've been able to create much more solid characters with the points I would have to had spent on the trait, sleights, and, in cases where I bought level 2, skills. I'm not asking for Professor Xavier. You can tell what I expected from my first reaction. Someone who is damaged but allowed to use their minds in crazy but not unbelievable ways. So a book (or chapter in a book, I'm not asking for much) that expands on asyncs and gives them abilities that make me want to make that 25-30 point investment would be greatly appreciated.

This might be nice, albeit I disagree with your sentiments regarding what is present (asyncs make the best charmers and meme engineers in the game). I personally feel that many aspects of the game probably should be expanded on. The mesh and hackers probably need a book of their own as well, as does the art of psychosurgery. It might be nice to see books similar to what Shadowrun has, where they are filled to the brim with a specific type of game flavor. One book for hackers and mesh tech, one book for implants, one book for morph design, one book for psi and asyncs. That could be awesome, even if they are $10 mini-books.

I agree: I don't want Psi to take over the game, but the current status is 'not worth it 99.9% of the time'. :/ One problem, I thought, was that you can't do much without damaging yourself pretty quickly. Even sticking to passive Chi's, you're just not getting much. This is particularly notable in the benefit/cost context (mentioned above): Psi costs a fair chunk of CP for the trait, for each sleight, for the Psi skills, for the Mental Disorders… I guess it could be handy if you had enough CP to 'waste' some, but you don't. :)

Exactly. And I'm saying that *even if* you get Level 1 only, Passive Chi-sleights only, no skills… it's still almost never worth it. There are a couple of powers that are nice to have 'portable' *if* it's a game where you lose your morph very often, don't have access to the equivalent-power implants, and *do* have access to new biomorphs.

Wyldknight wrote:

Yes, they do make good charmers and what not but only when they are within arms reach. Many games we played the people we were negotiating with we couldn't touch (healthy paranoia, those in the know who wouldn't risk it, synths/infomorphs, telecommunication, etc.) so that makes it pointless. As for meme generators I made one of those and instead of spending the points on being an async I bought the patron quality instead. Got the same job done and could even ask for stuff being an async doesn't provide.

A good portion of an async's abilities (all of psi-chi, Ego Sense, Empathic Scan, Mimic, Omni Awareness) do not require touch to work. Psi-chi sleights and Mimic are both damn handy even when facing synthmorphs (Mimic is probably one of the most powerful skills that a disguise artist can have in the game, and it's certainly handy for using as a charmer or meme generator). As for patron, if it's more useful than async abilities, then I imagine you are getting to use it more than once per adventure... which is more than it's suppose to be capable of being used.

Wyldknight wrote:

Like I said every async I made (and the other players in my group for that matter) I found a way to make them better by dropping Psi. Patron/Allies are in the same cost bracket as Psi, with Psi being at least 25 points and both of them only being 5 points more, but the cost benefit ratio is drastically different. When we had an async in the group our GM had to go out of his way to make them useful where as the rest of us it just came naturally. The few times they really shined it was cool but nothing we couldn't have done without them.

Cost/benefit ratio isn't particularly high on patrons. You get at most one favor an adventure, assuming that the GM thinks it's within reasonable parameters of what that patron will do. The only way I've found psi to be useless is if I'm stuck in a digital body (synthmorph, pod or infomorph), or one with low durability (flats make the worst async morphs). In all other scenarios, it simply takes a degree of resourcefulness (and perhaps a good pick of sleights).

Wyldknight wrote:

Oh, I totally forgot about that. Yes, the way they damage themselves is also an issue. At a certain point you can't use your more useful powers because you can't risk damaging yourself. Now ansyncs do have some useful powers. Ego sense saved us more then once for example. But the cost is steep for a handful of abilities that are cool but pretty expensive in the beginning.

This is probably my biggest problem with asyncs. Durability is lost quite quickly as a player uses their sleights. Either there should have been some separate psi point pool (which maybe requires durability to replenish), or some sleight that allows you to divert that damage elsewhere. I homebrewed a psi-chi sleight that allows an async to divert any amount of strain to stress damage rather than durability, but it's just a quick fix. There needs to be some better options for asyncs in this regard.

Psi causing Stress instead of DV has been something my group has played with since the game was released. We have found it makes Psi users much more amusing, and compounded with their already lowered Lucidity more than balanced. TBH at the moment I do not think that balance is something we really need to be worried about when making small changes to Psi, it is already a bit too expensive for what you are getting out of it. The easiest way to shoehorn it into the game would probably be to release a sleight that does it. No messy rewrites or errata that way.

CodeBreaker wrote:

Psi causing Stress instead of DV has been something my group has played with since the game was released. We have found it makes Psi users much more amusing, and compounded with their already lowered Lucidity more than balanced. TBH at the moment I do not think that balance is something we really need to be worried about when making small changes to Psi, it is already a bit too expensive for what you are getting out of it. The easiest way to shoehorn it into the game would probably be to release a sleight that does it. No messy rewrites or errata that way.

Already did it. Here's my take on it: Immersion Psi Type: Passive Range: Self Action: Automatic Duration: Constant An async's mind is heavily taxed when it produces active sleights, and the potential result is damage to the body. With this sleight, asyncs are capable of dedicating more mental resources to the task, which reduces the risk of bodily damage at the potential risk of the mind itself. Anytime strain is taken, the async may choose any amount of that strain to be received as mental stress rather than durability damage. Durability and stress damage caused by this is handled separately when determining wounds or derangements.

In our games we run it differently because otherwise that 30 points is useless. What's the difference between the Patron/Allies quality and just having high rep? Rep is far easier to get and maintain. We play it our way because it's pointless any other. What Patron offers so does reputation with much less strings attached so why should you buy it and how can you call it abuse when there is a cheaper way to do it? Anyway what logical reason is there that someone who owns a security firm cannot use the equipment he owns?

Wyldknight wrote:

In our games we run it differently because otherwise that 30 points is useless. What's the difference between the Patron/Allies quality and just having high rep? Rep is far easier to get and maintain. We play it our way because it's pointless any other. What Patron offers so does reputation with much less strings attached so why should you buy it and how can you call it abuse when there is a cheaper way to do it? Anyway what logical reason is there that someone who owns a security firm cannot use the equipment he owns?

Quite a bit of difference between high rep and Patron. High rep requires a skill investment, and allows for many favors to be called constantly, not just from the highest category but the lowest ones as well. Patron gives you [i]one favor a session at max[/i]. The former requires more points invested, but is intended to be far better than the latter. Plus, I'm not saying that the patron shouldn't have the power to use his resources. The character who has that patron shouldn't be able to access those resources that often. Earlier you said that patron is much better than psi, but it seems obvious that you are over-using the patron, which would make it a clear victor (just like allowing someone to get expensive favors every 3 seconds would make favors over-used, and far more powerful). Think about it this way: when you first posted up your complaints about psi, how would you have reacted if someone said "I don't see what your problem with psi is, I created a character with psi for 25 points, and he killed off the entire exsurgent virus using his ultra-telekinesis!"? Would you have said "wow, you're right, psi is awesome", or would you have thought he was over-abusing the benefits of psi? Seriously, read both traits. Allies and Patron were both intended to be uncommonly used, neither should be always at the player's beck and call, and should be removed if they are being abused (as in your patron is sick of your shit and has decided to abandon you). It also mentions that in the case of Allies, you may be expected to do favors for them.

Wyldknight wrote:

On use - You say we made it too powerful (Your example doesn't work because by RAW that's Psi level 3) because we didn't go with the [i]suggestion[/i] to limit it to once per session. Here's the thing, we never use it in a session. I said that already. It's always used before the session happens during mostly legwork stuff. Nothing we use it for goes against what the book says or even the spirit of the rule because we never use it again until the next mission and it's still more useful then Psi. Here's an example. The PCs want some security grade equipment so the PC with Patron contacts some of his suppliers and has them produce the equipment they need with the proper licensing. Now this is before the session even began and when the game did start we had the equipment we asked for and didn't ask the Patron for anything else that session...well we did use the company car but to count something as a favor that isn't even a favor (I know people who use company equipment like that all the time and no one cares) would just be over the top and if you did we would just rent a vehicle then.

That's [i]still a favor[/i]. Whether you feel it is important or not, doing things for you is a favor unto itself. You can't really count a favor merely on its magnitude. If I'm in the middle of the desert dying of dehydration and I call my patron to bring me some simple supplies, I can't just say "it's not really a favor because it's just a little food". Magnitude defines the degree of favor, but every favor no matter how small constitutes a favor. Besides, your example seems to be portraying [i]multiple favors[/i]. You got a good amount of different equipment, as well as the licenses for them? You only counted that as a single favor?

Wyldknight wrote:

Another example would be as the session started we had the Patron pull favors in a security firm to get us combat ready morphs when we egocasted to a new area. Still within the rule and nothing you wouldn't expect a security company to be able to pull off. Once again just one favor and they are always done either before the session happens or right in the beginning.

Holy shit! You used your patron to get multiple morphs in a single session?! You counted that as [i]one favor[/i]? What the hell constitutes multiple favors? How many morphs do you have to demand before it at least counts as "two favors"? Yes. When you are using your patron to get you a fleet of equipment and counting it as a single function, you are abusing the system.

Wyldknight wrote:

This was much more useful then the Psi when a proper use of drones, intel, and just plain muscle did the job. On the subject of biomorphs I completely missed you answered that. The reason you gave was the exact reason we don't fight them much. People WANT their bodies so why risk the squishy one you love in a fire fight when you can sleeve in a mechanical one that you don't care about and is also harder to kill. So right there the bulk of the psi level 2 abilities are useless and the psi 1 ones only marginally better but not enough to warrant the cost when the people who didn't have Psi were doing just as well or better.

Sure it's more useful, just like psi would be more useful if I were using it to blot out the sun, or to create a singularity where I stand. Or, for an example that's more similar to this scenario, it'd be like if I used the Deep Scan sleight, and said I was reading the mind of [i]every single person in the city[/i]... then said I only suffer the strain of one use.

Wyldknight wrote:

On cost - The skill check means crap when you have a 99 percent chance of making it. +40 from Background/faction to a Network, 50 free points with 3 CP to put it at 80, 15 SAV with + 5 from a Morph, 10 CP in the skill and then you take some extra time (which doesn't equal much if you have the multitasking implant and are doing whatever else you have to) for every test means you have a 100. You could role a 99 but I have yet to see it happen. So all together that's 18 (23 if you bought multitasking) CP or so not counting the morph which you have to buy anyway. That's a good chunk lower then 30 points and with a very low risk plus while you need to regain rep you also need to keep your Patron/Allies happy so that evens out.

The maximum you can have in any skill is 80 [i]including[/i] aptitudes. At best, you could have 90 in the skill if you had the proper enhancements from your morph. You'll probably be taking a penalty depending on how high the favor is and how high your reputation is. The 50 free reputation points go into your reputation, [i]not your networking skill[/i]. Networking is what is rolled to determine whether you get a favor, while reputation decides modifiers and other things. Without spending any points on skills or anything else, you can have a max of 50 Hypercorp reputation and 50 Hypercorp networking skill beyond your aptitude (if you take Hyperelite and Hypercorp as your background/faction). That's 90 Networking max if you pay for aptitudes (which requires Exceptional aptitude and 40 in Savvy... which costs a buttload in points), with a -20 penalty when dealing in expensive items and high-end favors. You can't go higher on Networking at creation, so the absolute best you can get is 5 more points of reputation to max out your rep (getting rid of the penalty)... and all that it costs in total is your background choice, faction choice, almost half of your starting aptitude points (a whopping 40 out of your starting 105, each of which is worth 10 CP by themselves), a 10-point trait, and 5 points to your rep. But yeah, that's cheap.

Wyldknight wrote:

Compare that to Psi. Let's go low at just level 1. So that's 20 points with a derangement + at least 5 points. 25 points ignoring the free bought of depression and you get only 1 thing out of it. Lets say you buy a few others. So it cost you 35 points (3 sleights) and while some of the skills are very useful they are hardly worth 15000 credits. Ok, Grok is worth the 5K but we haven't run into much equipment that one of us doesn't know how to use so it's a very situational sleight.

Actually, most psi-chi sleights tend to be huge point discounts. Hyperthymesia is the Eidetic Memory positive trait for half the price, and High Pain Threshold is the same for Pain Tolerance, Savant Calculation for Math Wiz. Ambience sense gives you 30 points in skill bonuses and a bonus in surprises, for 5 points. Downtime is a [i]severely powerful sleight[/i] that eliminates mental problems far faster than psychosurgery or therapy could ever hope to (a couple of players have purchased psi just for that ability alone). Enhanced creativity is a broad bonus that enhances many skill uses for what is effectively a 20-point effect. It should, point-wise, be worth quite a bit of points. The largest majority of those effects, in trait form, would be worth 10 points minimum. And I haven't even touched psi-gamma. It's a decent investment, with the the primary disadvantages being the insanities that come with it, the sleight reduction in your trauma threshold (which should be high if you are getting an async's WIL), a vulnerability penalty to the exsurgent virus, and the enhanced range vulnerability to psi (which you may also exploit when fighting other psi users, and is damn handy when you have other asyncs in your party). It's certainly one of the costlier things in the game, but it's useful if you figure out how to utilize it, and isn't amongst the most expensive things I've seen purchased at the table (I believe the winner is the person who spent 100 points on morphs alone, with no modifications... that, or B.D., the 13-armed octopus's body mods and guns).

Wyldknight wrote:

[b]I just want to emphasize this[/b]. I like the idea and concept of Psi, I really really do, but the execution is lacking if a character who didn't buy it is just as good if not better. Psi requires a massive investment and comes along with free baggage. With all the points spent on it (25-75 points not counting skills) and the burdens that come along with it I would expect to be a real (though fallible) force. Not just some guy who gets +10 to scrounge, investigation, surprise, and perception. That's cool but I would expect an implant and and maybe a tactical network upgrade to do most of that. Not something that cost me 25 CP which could get me a lot of stuff.

That +10 bonus goes beyond skill caps, yet acts as free skill points. Don't knock it, because if what you're looking for is 10 more points in those skills, you're already getting your points worth with that one sleight alone (one sleight plus psi 2 is 30 points... 10 points in each of those skills is also 30 points). The benefits only become better as you purchase up more sleights. I can see why they put a cap on how many sleights you could start with... had they not, I could have started off a decently balanced-out character simply by purchasing every psi-chi sleight there was. Can an implant do all those things? Sure, but there's a lot that an implant can do cheap. The right mesh inserts can get you a +10 bonus in computer skills, but does that make computer skills useless?

Buying the weapons counts as one because a company [b]cannot buy unlicensed weapons[/b]. Do you realize that’s HARDER than buying licensed weapons? Have you ever dealt with the gun market because depending on where you are a licensed gun is a few hours away while a street one can be hell to find. Licensed weapons means they’re on file, they know who bought them, they can be tracked, etc. To use this equipment without risk takes extra skill and work on the part of the PCs then buying unlicensed weapons because licensed weapons carry a whole other level of security measures with them. Don’t knock it till you realize it makes their jobs harder and that buying unlicensed is much more difficult because of all the extra work that needs to be done. Ok you’re literally ignoring things I type. I said we use it once per session as the rules state. And it’s still more useful. The favor was “Give us access to the branches spare morphs.” That is solidly one favor with multiple items involved. Like asking someone “Can we use your house while you’re gone.” That is one question but with multiple gains and items from that single request. I…I don’t even know what that as to do with anything since it’s not even possible. You’re talking about some crazy examples with no mechanical reason behind it. I’m offering some for mine that you seem to be ignoring or at least not challenging it. How is the company example I just gave irrational? It even made it harder for the PCs which you don’t seem to realize. Or how about the spare morph favor. Even if most of the spare morphs were taken already and we only got 2 or 3 the wording and situation are sound. “There is a branch of the company there with spare morphs for its operatives. Can we borrow them for a few days.” There is nothing over the top about that and it’s a completely reasonable request. Maybe I worded it incorrectly. Let me break it down for you. Rep Cost: 50 free points + 3 CP = 80 Rep. Final cost 3 CP. Networking Skill: 20 from Background + 20 from faction + base 15 SAV + 5 SAV from Morph + 10 CP =65 +30 from taking time = 95 on the test. Final cost 10 CP not including morph because it depends on what you bought. 95 percent is only 5 percent off from what I had. And the taking time isn’t even an issue if you bought the multitasking like I mentioned. Let’s say you take a few negative modifiers for one reason or another. Even when it’s pretty bad (-30) it’s still a 65. The odds are still on your side. Eidetic memory costs 250 credits. It’s so cheap I can’t expect anyone not having it and or any habitat not able to produce it except the ones way out of the way. We don’t go to those ones anyway so oh well. How does it eliminate it faster? Psychotherapy is 1 hour per point of stress whereas Downtime is 4 hours per point. The advantage with Downtime is you don’t need to make a test. It’s not faster it just about even with the advantage of no test. I suppose it’s faster if you keep failing rolls though but that’s situational and I’m assuming the roll was a success. I think this really comes down to personal preference. Your group has found it to be very useful while mine has found it to be cool but it doesn’t change much for us. You get a lot out of it whereas we just don’t. We’ve used it, we’ve had it used against us, but it really hasn’t made that big of a difference because we plan for just about everything. There hasn’t been one moment in our game where we said to ourselves “Damn, I wish one of us was an Async.”

Wyldknight wrote:

On cost - The skill check means crap when you have a 99 percent chance of making it. +40 from Background/faction to a Network, 50 free points with 3 CP to put it at 80, 15 SAV with + 5 from a Morph, 10 CP in the skill and then you take some extra time (which doesn't equal much if you have the multitasking implant and are doing whatever else you have to) for every test means you have a 100.

Assuming you only have a 60 to go up to the 100 you need to triple the time required for a favor, 1 hour becoming 3 hours for a level 3 is not that bad, unless time is important, but taking 9 days to get something is not really that useful in a session. The skill checks will matter in the cases where they are suppose to matter, when you do not have the luxury of waiting, this is also when Patron/Allies really shines, as they can get you something allot faster then networking can. If you are never in those situations then if is probably the result of a problem wit the GM style. Plus the background/faction bonuses are not really free as they cost you things you would get from other backgrounds and factions.

Wyldknight wrote:

The favor was “Give us access to the branches spare morphs.” That is solidly one favor with multiple items involved. Like asking someone “Can we use your house while you’re gone.” That is one question but with multiple gains and items from that single request.

But it is still an excess that the GM should have said no to. The book warns about abusing the patron, and this is something that is a clear abuse. But then again spare and expendable morphs are not exactly common or cheap enough that you can lend them out to people who are likely to get at least 1 destroyed. also with regards to why people are not all swapping from synth to biomorph and back whenever that expect trouble, or start their job, integration tests are one reason, you can be off for days if you have a bad integration result.

Wyldknight wrote:

And you’re ignoring pure and simple logic. [b]A security company cannot produce unlicensed weapons and the licenses makes them harder to use[/b]. I don’t understand how to get that through to you anymore. [b]How can you call it abuse when it makes their job harder[/b]? That’s like saying you gave someone armor that’s good but gives them strict penalties and then calling it unbalanced.

I wasn't talking about those sorts of licenses, and neither were they. A gun license authorizes someone to be carrying that weapon without being arrested on the spot. A license allows you to carry said weapon into many locations right through the front door. If that's not what you meant, then fine. But you have to admit that giving someone a weapon, then giving them the necessary papers to carry it in broad daylight in most locations without restraint is a pretty hefty favor.

Wyldknight wrote:

Ok, can you give some more reasonable comparisons. Emperor of the Universe? A fleet of ships? You’re not even trying to make sense with these examples. Here’s something comparative. Having access to their whole armory. That is something that is in the same ballpark and I didn’t even try.

Hyperbole, I have to admit, but it was in the same basic concept. You're constituting an entire collection of favors as a single favor, simply by merit of the fact that it's all the same favor. One morph is a favor. Many morphs are multiple favors. Saying that all of them constitute one favor because they are all morphs is just ludicrous.

Wyldknight wrote:

They’re company property. Of course we have to bring it back in decent shape. Haven’t you ever heard of the term [i]you break it you buy it[/i]? You can’t just take what belongs to a hypercorp and do what you want with it and expect to give nothing back. I thought we both assumed common sense was used when the bottom line for the Patron was at stake.

I'm not saying you didn't, but I was throwing it out as part and parcel of what would constitute a single favor. Getting multiple morphs should be classified as multiple favors.

Wyldknight wrote:

Once again situational. We have a person on our team who can do that and does it for free because he knows in this line of work we need it. It’s not faster for us because you can speed up time in a Simulspace. Get most of the stress worked away in a day or so if it’s REALLY bad. Otherwise we’re good in a few hours.

Handy in such a case, but only in said case. The nice perk of Downtime is that it can be used anywhere. Very handy when your team is on a stakeout, and you can wait out the time by healing your mind. Without access to simulspace or someone who's willing to wait on you for more than 6 hours a day, psychotherapy starts to lose its appeal. So long as my character hasn't reached the point that he's a babbling mass of crazy, he only needs at most two weeks of rest and relaxation and a comfy bed to be ready for any horrors he might face.

Regardless of this handwaving, 'we own the company' idea, a favor is a favor. Look at the table and decide if you're massively abusing things (you are). That's *not* a problem! EP is not a competitive game, you guys are obviously having fun, and the story is the end result. Just don't come here and act like you're playing normal rules. Don't forget, when talking about how cheap the sleights are versus equivalent gear/traits, to factor in the cost of Psi 1/Psi 2, the Mental Disorder(s ), and possible the Psi skills required. *If* you actually want Scrounging, *if* your GM gets creative about the Creativity bonus, etc., then possible some of the powers gain parity. For *some* characters, you might indeed come out ahead. Overall, still pretty iffy.

Networking couldn't easily get you a 'full set of combat morphs', or even a full set of powerful weapons. Even assuming you don't fail a roll, there are cooldowns. It's the size of the 'favors' you're describing that's the issue. A single Expensive item (any decent morph, before Expensive 'combat' mods) is a Level 5 Favor (refresh: 3 months). The long-distance egocasting itself is another Level 5 Favor (per person). If you have multiple people with max Rep in several networks, and the Networking skill to back it up, you might pull off these kinds of things by tapping out everyone's resources for a long time. If you failed to describe significant non-Patron effort for these favors earlier, that's your fault. :D Anyway, we're not saying you're cheating or playing wrong or anything. We're saying that you can't come say 'Patron can do all this' in a discussion of the rules.

You hadn't at the beginning. :) The short answer is 'because the rules says you can call on them once per session *at most*'. AFAIK, the rules don't actually say 'Favor', but it's the 'once' is very clear, and there's lots of verbiage about abuse. The only slightly longer answer is that that's *not* a penalty, that's an opportunity to play more EP. :D

Here's something I found on twitter and youtube, that shows something I would like to see in a future guide: something about everyday life pre and post Fall: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Cf7IL_eZ38&feature=player_embedded[/url]