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Forks and Rep

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Mon, 2011-02-28 15:12

DataPacRat DataPacRat's picture

Forks and Rep

From what I've been able to make out, most people who create forks either create non-alpha forks that aren't as fully-developed as the original ego, or alpha forks that are meant to be merged back with the main ego fairly quickly. In such cases, it seems entirely reasonable that all the minds created from the same ego would share the same Rep, and the whole set would be using the same 'pool' of Rep favors. But... how do you feel Rep should be dealt with when someone creates a fork (or activates a backup) that's meant to go live life as a separate being from the original ego?

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Thank you for your time,

Mon, 2011-02-28 15:23

Yerameyahu Yerameyahu's picture

Re: Forks and Rep

In some situations, it doesn't matter: for a given player, they usually get 1 (sometimes 2?) 'real PCs'. Extra separate egos are NPCs, so they're the GM's problem (and slaves, heh). I can see how the in-world answer could get complicated, though. Let's see… if they're both going by the same ID, you'd expect them to continue sharing rep (possibly to their detriment). You might also expect people to figure it out, and react according to their own opinions (probably negatively). The two egos could also diverge into distinct identities, so they'd have separate rep; in that case, I guess you'd have to decide how much rep they 'inherit' from the original (shared, none, etc.) The backup scenario you mention is more interesting to me. Presumably, both active versions would realize very quickly that the other existed as soon as their activity showed up on the rep networks. In some cases, I think that would simply prompt them to merge (perhaps painfully, if it's been a while).

Mon, 2011-02-28 15:40

DataPacRat DataPacRat's picture

Re: Forks and Rep

Yerameyahu wrote:
if they're both going by the same ID

There's an assumption worth playing with. Let's say that our would-be forker fiddles with his ID protocol slightly, such that every full copy (whether alpha fork or activated backup) contains a set of notes describing which earlier copies they are 'descended' from, so that it's possible to tell that a given copy is, say, a future self of the copy who wandered off to become a brinker, and not a future self of the copy who went gatecrashing. Thus making it possible to tell which forks are future versions of ones who did notable things and acquired good Rep thereby, and those which aren't. (Presumably with all the complicated and messy details being handled in the background by muses, of course.) Would that make a significant difference?

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Thank you for your time,

Mon, 2011-02-28 15:42

TBRMInsanity TBRMInsanity's picture

Re: Forks and Rep

I would imagine that a Fork considers themselves as you, and as such would be fully able to use your REP like you would. This does mean that if your Fork diverges, there is the risk you could lose access to your REP to your Fork. I need to read more about Pax Familular to see how they handle their REP. I imagine that if you can broadcast to the Mesh the difference between you and your Fork, that you can divide your REP as well (like splinting the shares in a company). From this point onward, your Fork would be treated as a new and distinct individual with their own REP. Merging two Egos would have the advantage of merging their REP (eliminating any REP for duplicate actions of course).

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Jovian Motto: Your mind is original. Preserve it. Your body is a temple. Maintain it. Immortality is an illusion. Forget it.

Mon, 2011-02-28 15:53

Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture

Re: Forks and Rep

I'd just assume they share Rep, as they use the same Ego ID, until one of them changes their registered ID. In differing habitats, I assume there's different ways of handling this, and possibly even different ways based on social networks. On Titan, for example, they each share the same Rep but have different rep trackers for a period of, say, six months to a year, at which point they are considered to be different people. Meanwhile, in the PC, rep is tracked by different companies/groups, and they'd all likely handle this differently based on the reasons for forking. For some, they might continue to recognize the forks as the same individual for a time, but for others, they might instantly segregate them as two individuals who have identical histories.

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[img]http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/982/exhumanbar.jpg[/img] [img]http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/4473/scumbar.jpg[/img] [img]http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/1396/gatecrasherbar.jpg[/img] [code][@-rep +1, f-rep +2][/code]

Mon, 2011-02-28 21:16

DataPacRat DataPacRat's picture

Re: Forks and Rep

Just thought of a completely different way to look at forks and Rep... ... and that is that if the forker has had a chance to make enough selves, such that there's a reasonable chance for there to be 'one of him in every port', then it may be worth creating a new reputation network for themselves, as each one obviously has a reasonable interest in lending favours to such a well-regarded individual. :)

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Thank you for your time,

Tue, 2011-03-01 02:11

Christian de Kell Christian de Kell's picture

Re: Forks and Rep

maybe using spaecial identification codes... like secret societies

Tue, 2011-03-01 21:58

Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture

Re: Forks and Rep

In the game I've been playing until recently, my character was a fork himself, sleeved in a biomorph equipped with a cyberbrain, ignoring what he was (mislead by his AGI original). At the creation, I spent extra CP to get a separate set of rep I think that any player, when making an Alpha Fork, should be spending some Rez point to give his(or her or their) fork some rep and skills advancement of their own after they spend an entire game session apart. When the remerge is being done, use the highest score difference between the original and the fork, removing any psychosurgery bonus, as a malus to the stress roll In case of critical fail, the MoF is the amount of Stress points gained during the process for exemple Let's say that Iblis has a fork alpha that he wants to re-assimilate the highest score difference is in kinetic weapon. Iblis has 45 but his fork progressed to 65 in the same skill. so when he'll roll his WIL, he'll get a -20 penalty due to the alteration that appeared between them.

Spoiler: Highlight to view

if Tron Legacy occured in a simspace in EP, this would be why Flynn was obliterated, while absorbing Clu, the difference between the two must have given too big a malus and critical failure flew waaay past his Insanity rating

on the rep interference, I would say that the positive or negative difference is applied as a bonus or malus on the Networking roll using that rep

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Wed, 2011-03-02 16:09

Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture

Re: Forks and Rep

In one of my campaigns a PC split. He deliberately set up a new identity for his "renegade" fork, and then used some of his wealth and rep to give this new person rep. For example, he told Firewall about the split, and hence Firewall decided to give the "renegade" the same i-rep from the start. He also used some of his money to get some shady rep-brokers to give the "renegade" some slightly dodgy g-rep and @-rep; nothing significant, but enough to get started. Over time the two forks have been diverging in rep (the "original" has gained a lot of rep in a new rep network, the "renegade" has lost all rep towards the Barsoomians but gained a tiny amount of gatecrashing rep). During the game the "renegade" also found a new trick/problem: his original identity was uncovered by an NPC, who promised to help him in exchange of *three* big favours. So the "renegade" essentially promised favours from the "original". This was OK with the "original" (they like their forks), but what the "renegade" doesn't know is that now the "original" is plotting a bit against him to save him from himself...

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Wed, 2011-03-09 01:44

#10

Thantrax

Re: Forks and Rep

My knee jerk reaction to this is to give both Alphas the full rep of the individual. They've split, but people have a rep based on how much they contribute to their networks, right? Neither one of these Alphas is inherently going to provide less help to the network, so I don't see any reason for the network to turn it's back on either of them. Rep has the benefit of not being based on a 'gold standard' of any sort. There isn't anything to divide up. In the microcosm, Ted might not want to pay both Alphas for when they lent him that power drill last week, but in the macrocosm of the network as a whole, I'd think they'd step up to the plate for both Alphas, and be very upset if both Alphas didn't step up for them.

Wed, 2011-03-09 04:56

#11

Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture

Re: Forks and Rep

But are you open with your alpha splitting? If you are, then you are overtly flouting the law in the inner solar system, and many outer communities also find the behaviour distasteful and would no doubt give both of you at least a rep penalty. If you are not open about who your newfound "brother" is, then there is no reason to assign the same rep to him.

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Wed, 2011-03-09 09:10

#12

Yerameyahu Yerameyahu's picture

Re: Forks and Rep

Also, and I think this was already mentioned, that only works as long as you're 'the same person'. Those alphas are sharing the same rep identity. If they stop being a single identity, then it's not logical to say that they've 'both' contributed to the rep network, see? By the law of conservation of favors, they'd have to split the single amount of rep (possibly 100%/0%, but that's still a split). :) If the alpha fork is described as 'your brother', that's a wholly separate individual. He gets Rep 0.

Wed, 2011-03-09 12:21

#13

Thantrax

Re: Forks and Rep

I certainly agree that if the person is claiming to be a 'brother', it's a 0 rep to start. They haven't done anything for anyone. If Alpha One and Alpha Two are both claiming to be the original, yeah, they'd share one pooled rep. I see your argument about the Conservation of Favours, and because of that, I might generally recommend a -10 to your rep scores for most rep networks. @-rep wouldn't care about your legal status, but wouldn't want to be doing the full favour list for both people. C-rep might put you down as illegal, so if it wasn't a legitimate split (like a backup mix up), I could see piling a bigger hit on, or maybe a Networking penalty. With the kinds of favours you could get from f-rep, I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't take a hit at all. What kind of favours are you getting from them? Exclusive invitations, gossip on people's lives, funding for an arts program, probably all things that make the rep's lives go round anyhow. Not dinging your rep network probably just makes everyone profit as there is a new player in the game! I see i-rep not being dinged as well, you are now basically two sentinels and your value should be attributed accordingly. Depending on how you run your Firewall though, I could see them being forced to share a pool, even after an 'official split'. Firewall might be playing games with alpha splits in your game already.

Wed, 2011-03-09 16:02

#14

Yerameyahu Yerameyahu's picture

Re: Forks and Rep

I do agree that different networks (and the people in them) could react differently. :)