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Character concept: polite Von Neumann

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Sun, 2011-02-27 17:22

DataPacRat DataPacRat's picture

Character concept: polite Von Neumann

Imagine an ego who wants to live forever if possible; and, aware of the potential for X-Risks, decides that the best odds for survival lie in spreading inactive backups (with a nanofab), and even outright alpha forks, as widely as possible. Naturally, there are various limitations to this strategy - one of the most significant being people who regard such antics poorly. Thus, the main adjustments to this strategy would be for him to follow it in such a way to avoid annoying powerful people in ways sufficient to get them to start exterminating his various forks. For example, trying to only have a single activated copy running around in any particular location (however many backups may be cached there, waiting to be activated should the current copy get killed off); and avoiding jealousy by the clanking masses and unbodied infomorphs by preferring sleeves that even they wouldn't want, such as a rat-shaped creepy modded with a cyberbrain and fractal digits instead of a tail. How well do you think such a (set of) being(s) would fare in EP? What further complications can you think of would ensue, and what other adjustments to the general strategy do you think would be necessary? Which groups do you think would find such an entity most compatible, and which would despise him no matter what else he did?

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Thank you for your time,

Sun, 2011-02-27 17:42

Decivre

Re: Character concept: polite Von Neumann

DataPacRat wrote:
Imagine an ego who wants to live forever if possible; and, aware of the potential for X-Risks, decides that the best odds for survival lie in spreading inactive backups (with a nanofab), and even outright alpha forks, as widely as possible. Naturally, there are various limitations to this strategy - one of the most significant being people who regard such antics poorly. Thus, the main adjustments to this strategy would be for him to follow it in such a way to avoid annoying powerful people in ways sufficient to get them to start exterminating his various forks. For example, trying to only have a single activated copy running around in any particular location (however many backups may be cached there, waiting to be activated should the current copy get killed off); and avoiding jealousy by the clanking masses and unbodied infomorphs by preferring sleeves that even they wouldn't want, such as a rat-shaped creepy modded with a cyberbrain and fractal digits instead of a tail. How well do you think such a (set of) being(s) would fare in EP? What further complications can you think of would ensue, and what other adjustments to the general strategy do you think would be necessary? Which groups do you think would find such an entity most compatible, and which would despise him no matter what else he did?

Technically, the average person in the world of EP already does this in the form of backup insurance... essentially a service where you pay people to store multiple redundant copies of your mind, so that your existence is ensured well after your death. You can even tell them the parameters under which you want them to reinstantiate one of your backups... perhaps if you do not make contact with them within a certain number of days, or if news of your death hits the mesh. The very paranoid may even hire [i]multiple insurance companies[/i], just in case one of them falls under financial ruin, or turns out not to be trustworthy. There are a few disadvantages to wantonly sending out multiple copies of your mind. The most obvious that comes to mind is the possibility that one of your backups falls into the wrong hands. Clever use of one of your backups could result in identity theft or the enslavement of one of your forks.

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Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]

Sun, 2011-02-27 17:53

Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture

Re: Character concept: polite Von Neumann

I think you can write the Jovians off as "Not going to like you" right off the bat. That aside, I don't think this strategy is too unusual. I figure more than a few people store back-ups in a great deal of places. I know if I was in the setting and lived on pre-Fall Earth, I'd want a back-up on Lunar and maybe even Mars, just in case something terrible happened to Earth. In post-Fall Earth, I'd be even more paranoid, and I know I'd not be the only one. As for sleeving, though, I think you'd face less unusual stares if you sleeved in a pod than anything. A Pod is a sign of poverty; being just above the clanking masses but below the other people. The Clanking Masses may not accept you, but, come the revolution, you won't be the first against the wall either; you'd have at least enough time to get a synthmorph body (or switch to one you keep in reserve). Meanwhile, in the event of a crackdown against synths, you can pass for biological enough to get by. Sleeving in something unusual in any manner will get SOMEONE looking at you in an odd way. You want to stay small and unobtrusive to get by there. Finally, if you want to protect yourself from as many angry factions as possible, just stay the hell out of politics and positions of power. A hypercorp manager will get strung up by a lot of anarchists just as readily as Barsoomian synths will get abused by mercenaries looking for a cheap laugh. Just stay quiet, and you'll get by.

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[img]http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/982/exhumanbar.jpg[/img] [img]http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/4473/scumbar.jpg[/img] [img]http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/1396/gatecrasherbar.jpg[/img] [code][@-rep +1, f-rep +2][/code]

Sun, 2011-02-27 17:54

DataPacRat DataPacRat's picture

Re: Character concept: polite Von Neumann

Decivre wrote:
Technically, the average person in the world of EP already does this in the form of backup insurance... essentially a service where you pay people to store multiple redundant copies of your mind, so that your existence is ensured well after your death. You can even tell them the parameters under which you want them to reinstantiate one of your backups... perhaps if you do not make contact with them within a certain number of days, or if news of your death hits the mesh. The very paranoid may even hire [i]multiple insurance companies[/i], just in case one of them falls under financial ruin, or turns out not to be trustworthy.

Backup insurance is a first step - but backups are usually stored inactively, while I'm imagining this character to also fork into multiple active selves in various locations, both in the Solar system and through the Pandora gates. Another possibility: "Backup /insurance/? When I've got my own nanofabs to build my own cyberbrains, synths, and nanofabs? Why should I pay someone else for what I'm already doing for myself?"

Quote:
There are a few disadvantages to wantonly sending out multiple copies of your mind. The most obvious that comes to mind is the possibility that one of your backups falls into the wrong hands. Clever use of one of your backups could result in identity theft or the enslavement of one of your forks.

A necessary part of the psychology of someone willing to go through this strategy would be a willingness to accept the risk of self-napping. (Or, perhaps, even going so far as to open-source his own ego, so that /anyone/ who wanted to create a copy of him, for whatever purpose, would be able to.) Identity theft is an interesting question; if there are already dozens of active alpha forks running around, it would seem likely that such a being would have already come up with some method for discriminating one fork from another, and which forks derive from which. (Of course, this brings the whole issue about property rights of multiple forks of a single individual square into the spotlight, which could be a good or bad thing...)

—

Thank you for your time,

Sun, 2011-02-27 18:03

DataPacRat DataPacRat's picture

Re: Character concept: polite Von Neumann

Axel the Chimeric wrote:
I think you can write the Jovians off as "Not going to like you" right off the bat.

That much I'd gathered from my quick-skim-so-far. :)

Quote:
That aside, I don't think this strategy is too unusual. I figure more than a few people store back-ups in a great deal of places. I know if I was in the setting and lived on pre-Fall Earth, I'd want a back-up on Lunar and maybe even Mars, just in case something terrible happened to Earth. In post-Fall Earth, I'd be even more paranoid, and I know I'd not be the only one.

Backups do, indeed, seem common; but how common is deliberately spreading around, not just inactive backups, but active forks?

Quote:
As for sleeving, though, I think you'd face less unusual stares if you sleeved in a pod than anything. A Pod is a sign of poverty; being just above the clanking masses but below the other people. The Clanking Masses may not accept you, but, come the revolution, you won't be the first against the wall either; you'd have at least enough time to get a synthmorph body (or switch to one you keep in reserve). Meanwhile, in the event of a crackdown against synths, you can pass for biological enough to get by. Sleeving in something unusual in any manner will get SOMEONE looking at you in an odd way. You want to stay small and unobtrusive to get by there.

Hm... from what I've been able to make out from what I've read so far, there's a shortage of morphs socially acceptable to general society, resulting in a bunch of egos stuck as infomorphs or even in inactive storage. With multiple active forks, this entity could use up a bunch of morphs that could be used to house other minds - from some points of view, using up 'more than his fair share', even if all but one of those morphs are AUs away. This is the form of anger I thought to defuse by using a robot instead of a synth or pod.

Quote:
Finally, if you want to protect yourself from as many angry factions as possible, just stay the hell out of politics and positions of power. A hypercorp manager will get strung up by a lot of anarchists just as readily as Barsoomian synths will get abused by mercenaries looking for a cheap laugh. Just stay quiet, and you'll get by.

I'm going to guess that being entirely willing to perform various scutwork, the stuff that needs to get done but nobody really wants to do themselves, and not doing too much to burn off the ensuing Rep, would also help. (Though I have to say that the idea that, say, the person with the highest rep in a given place might be the janitor at the porn studio, almost gives me the giggles... of course, I'm still not entirely sure I've gotten the nuances of the Rep system down pat, yet.)

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Thank you for your time,

Mon, 2011-02-28 02:19

Decivre

Re: Character concept: polite Von Neumann

DataPacRat wrote:
Backups do, indeed, seem common; but how common is deliberately spreading around, not just inactive backups, but active forks?

Not too common. Most people still aren't comfortable with the idea of having multiple versions of themselves running around. Even those that are comfortable with that idea, aren't comfortable with the possibility of one of their forks diverging too greatly from the "original", and thus merge often. Forking is still pioneer ground, even in EP's time.

DataPacRat wrote:
Hm... from what I've been able to make out from what I've read so far, there's a shortage of morphs socially acceptable to general society, resulting in a bunch of egos stuck as infomorphs or even in inactive storage. With multiple active forks, this entity could use up a bunch of morphs that could be used to house other minds - from some points of view, using up 'more than his fair share', even if all but one of those morphs are AUs away. This is the form of anger I thought to defuse by using a robot instead of a synth or pod.

Synthmorphs (and robots with a cyberbrain, by proxy) are frowned upon by the majority of society as a result of social biochauvinism. A steel body is a sign of poverty or deviancy, because the general consensus is that biomorphs just "feel better". There are those that disagree, but public opinion doesn't see it their way.

—

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]

Mon, 2011-02-28 09:50

Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture

Re: Character concept: polite Von Neumann

Well, there are the Banyans (people running several alphas and regularly merging them, maintaining a broad network). But they are kind of high profile - while they try to avoid being noticed they are also living a pretty radical lifestyle. http://eclipsephase.com/merging-me-myself-and-i http://www.eclipsephase.com/banyan-lifestyle Having lots of backups works, especially if you use one of the more paranoid services like Redoubtronics: http://www.aleph.se/EclipsePhase/Redoubtronics.pdf In fact, having enough backups seems to allow living forever. A friend and me recently proved mathematically that if you have a number of copies and they are randomly deleted with a finite probability per year, if the copies grow as the logarithm of time you have a finite chance of *never* being completely deleted. But the truly paranoid would like to have copies living in Brinker habitats slowly diffusing out into the Oort cloud.

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Mon, 2011-02-28 11:17

Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture

Re: Character concept: polite Von Neumann

I still advocate a Pod morph. Pods are discriminated against, but not too greatly; they're enough of both worlds to rest comfortably between them. As for multiple alpha forks, I'd avoid alpha forks myself. They cause too many sticky issues in the long-run. That said, you could strictly limit yourself to an extent by, say, having an alpha fork in as many places as possible. One on Venus, one on Luna, one on Mars, one in the asteroid belt, etc. Or even more diversely, one per habitat, all assuming different names despite similar identities. That way, if your given city/habitat/aerostat/etc. is destroyed, others live on. That would greatly limit your social/financial opportunities, of course, but that wasn't an issue to begin with. You could also try and get your forks in the Gatecrashing programs and do a lot of off-world assignments.

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Mon, 2011-02-28 15:01

DataPacRat DataPacRat's picture

Re: Character concept: polite Von Neumann

Arenamontanus wrote:
Having lots of backups works, especially if you use one of the more paranoid services like Redoubtronics: http://www.aleph.se/EclipsePhase/Redoubtronics.pdf

Now that seems like an entirely sensible and worthwhile endeavour - exactly the sort of thing the sort of characters I'm imagining would consider setting up as a profitable side-business, once they'd taken care of their own backups.

Quote:
But the truly paranoid would like to have copies living in Brinker habitats slowly diffusing out into the Oort cloud.

'Paranoid'? Seems perfectly understandable to me. ;)

Axel the Chimeric wrote:
As for multiple alpha forks, I'd avoid alpha forks myself. They cause too many sticky issues in the long-run. That said, you could strictly limit yourself to an extent by, say, having an alpha fork in as many places as possible. One on Venus, one on Luna, one on Mars, one in the asteroid belt, etc. Or even more diversely, one per habitat, all assuming different names despite similar identities. That way, if your given city/habitat/aerostat/etc. is destroyed, others live on.

What you're describing is exactly what I had in mind - though I seem to have done a poor job of expressing myself.

Quote:
You could also try and get your forks in the Gatecrashing programs and do a lot of off-world assignments.

Hm... "Hi, I see you've just scheduled to go through the gate. Would you be interested in an additional volunteer joining you? I'm perfectly willing to serve as grunt laborer or expendable meatshield, in which case all I will charge is being able to bring along a piece of my own luggage; or, if you're interested in my expert skills, we can start negotiating what I'm worth to you..." ... I wonder how many gatecrasher PCs would be interested in having one or more such extra redshirts?

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Thank you for your time,

Mon, 2011-02-28 15:22

#10

Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture

Re: Character concept: polite Von Neumann

When you go Gatecrashing, EVERYONE is a redshirt. That said, all it takes is applying for the job. Sky Ark, for example, is always hiring new genehackers.

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