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How big is a cyberbrain?

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DataPacRat DataPacRat's picture
How big is a cyberbrain?
How large is a cyberbrain? Or, put another way, how small a synth body is it possible for a sleeved ego to run around in? The section in equipment on robots says that "Any of these bots may be modified for use as a synthetic morph, however, by adding a cyberbrain system" - and that seems like it's written to include gnats, specks, or at least rodent-sized creepies.
Thank you for your time,
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: How big is a cyberbrain?
DataPacRat wrote:
How large is a cyberbrain? Or, put another way, how small a synth body is it possible for a sleeved ego to run around in? The section in equipment on robots says that "Any of these bots may be modified for use as a synthetic morph, however, by adding a cyberbrain system" - and that seems like it's written to include gnats, specks, or at least rodent-sized creepies.
Cyberbrains can be very small. The largest majority of the housing is probably protective in nature. Remember, an ecto is about the size of a credit card... and it can house a full ego along with multiple software suites and the like. Considering that a cyberbrain only needs to house an ego with nothing else, the total processing space is [i]very[/i] small.
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
Yerameyahu Yerameyahu's picture
Re: How big is a cyberbrain?
Is any part of the cyberbrain used for the sort of virtual motor cortex stuff (and/or autonomous functions, etc.) that goes along with distinct morphs, or is that all software 'patches' of the sleeving process?
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: How big is a cyberbrain?
Yerameyahu wrote:
Is any part of the cyberbrain used for the sort of virtual motor cortex stuff (and/or autonomous functions, etc.) that goes along with distinct morphs, or is that all software 'patches' of the sleeving process?
Probably. Actually, the motor cortex components that the original AI used for interacting with the body could probably interface with a cyberbrain structure (it's likely standardized, like USB). For cyberbrains in organic bodies (such as pods), they are likely attached to an interface device that hooks up to the rest of the central nervous system, and translates the cyberbrain's commands into biological processes.
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture
Re: How big is a cyberbrain?
Decivre wrote:
Remember, an ecto is about the size of a credit card... and it can house a full ego along with multiple software suites and the like.
But how much of what is 'on' an ecto is actually on the cloud?
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: How big is a cyberbrain?
nezumi.hebereke wrote:
But how much of what is 'on' an ecto is actually on the cloud?
Probably not much, if any. Processing power has increased dramatically since our day, and this can be seen with mesh inserts, which are a full-capability computation system capable of being housed in the skull next to the brain without pushing too much of it out of the way. To be honest, we can't use today's cloud computing completely to model the future's. Current cloud computing is focused around security, accessibility, and high-end computation. Within EP's future, however, accessibility is no longer an issue as most people have their computers implanted within their brain. High-end computation (such as for simspaces, reputation networks, databases) and security needs (vital document storage, DRM) are likely to be the only remaining elements that need the cloud that would exist from the present. Of course, there is the possibility of some new computing paradigm that also comes about to take up cloud computing.
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: How big is a cyberbrain?
I have somewhat handwavingly decided that the minimal cyberbrain has a volume of about a cubic centimetre. I based this on my estimates of nanoprocessing for uploads and the fact that a cortical stack (that at least stores an ego) has this size. Presumably this is where the density starts to bite (hard to cool etc), and most cyberbrains tend to be 10-100 times larger but with lower design demands.
Extropian
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: How big is a cyberbrain?
Arenamontanus wrote:
I have somewhat handwavingly decided that the minimal cyberbrain has a volume of about a cubic centimetre. I based this on my estimates of nanoprocessing for uploads and the fact that a cortical stack (that at least stores an ego) has this size. Presumably this is where the density starts to bite (hard to cool etc), and most cyberbrains tend to be 10-100 times larger but with lower design demands.
I always assumed that the majority of a cortical stack is the protective diamond shell, and not the actual storage itself. The casing of a cortical stack is designed to take a vast amount of punishment, and I imagine that means it's shell is the largest majority of its space (at least 70% of its volume, if not more). However, I do agree on processing density. A more densely-populated processor has higher heat output, so a less dense system nearly the size of a human brain, that is capable of doing the same processing as a system the size of a credit card or smaller, is likely to be relatively very heat efficient. This is probably one of the steps necessary to produce a synthetically-masked synthmorph... it's hard to pose as a human when your head temperature is significantly higher than what a human can survive.
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
Yerameyahu Yerameyahu's picture
Re: How big is a cyberbrain?
Hmm. Well, I was just thinking about possible reasons for the cyberbrain to be bigger. It does sound like design advantages could be a promising one, if morph-specific control hardware isn't. :)
DataPacRat DataPacRat's picture
Re: How big is a cyberbrain?
Thank you for all the replies - I'd forgotten the point that even an ecto can run an ego, which is small enough for my purposes. (And in case anyone's curious - a present-day credit card that follows the international standard's specs has a total volume of 3.5 cubic centimetres.)
Thank you for your time,
Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture
Re: How big is a cyberbrain?
Cortical stacks, I thought, were roughly the size of a grape, at least some of which is protective synthetic diamond. I'd figure that something just slightly larger than that (say, about double that size) is appropriate for a cyberbrain, covering the cyberbrain and its additional processing systems. Synths themselves can be made quite small, though. The head need not contain the cyberbrain, after all. In fact, if you integrated computers throughout your habitats (as all habitats do, really), you could run everyone as infomorphs with restrictive programming to jam a single synth. This lets them live at a far smaller size. There's actually mention of one habitat that does this, even; it's a lot less resource intensive.
Yerameyahu Yerameyahu's picture
Re: How big is a cyberbrain?
I know people keep mentioning cortical stacks, but is that really relevant? They're storage, not the place where the ego is 'run', right?
Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture
Re: How big is a cyberbrain?
Well, a cortical stack has enough programming power to actively record an entire ego and its processes while it functions, once a second. That would indicate to me a fairly significant amount of processing power for something that size. Don't forget that ghostrider modules are linked into a person's mesh inserts too, and they can run an ego, so they're clearly not overwhelmingly large.
Yerameyahu Yerameyahu's picture
Re: How big is a cyberbrain?
Again, that's storage, not processing. It's not a critical point, because we're also talking about ectos and things (which *are* about processing). I just found it odd that cortical stacks entered into the conversation at all. Do we have any idea how big a Ghostrider module is (beyond 'small enough to fit in a morph')? That's sort of the question of the thread, restated.
nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture
Re: How big is a cyberbrain?
I would agree that the stack is storage, not processing power. A cyberbrain needs space for processing, since processing necessary creates heat, and so needs space for dissipation. Also, the stack doesn't store the ENTIRE brain, only the bits of the brain which are unique enough to warrant being specially saved. So for instance, most of the parts of the brain dedicated to things like image processing, movement, homeostasis, processing emotions, data access and so on would not be stored on a stack (but do take space in a cyberbrain).
Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture
Re: How big is a cyberbrain?
If this is the case, an ecto is probably the best thing to go on. A credit-card-sized mass beneath the skin would be relatively unobtrusive.
Yerameyahu Yerameyahu's picture
Re: How big is a cyberbrain?
I'd almost prefer a little more difficulty in running a full ego. :) It's a little odd to me that an ecto can, but that's just anthropocentrism, anti-munchkinry, and gritty sci-fi butting in where they don't belong, hehe. Is a Ghostrider module also credit-card-sized, then? Have we come to an answer about robots that are too small, or is that just the swarmanoid discussion all over again?
Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture
Re: How big is a cyberbrain?
Well, personally, I always imagined a cyberbrain (protection included) as the size of a skull, and a ghostrider module the size of a femur, but those don't really enhance the difficulty of running it, just the size necessary. I envision this sort of ghostrider module implanted into the side of the skull, or along the collar bone, wrapped around it as to remain unobtrusive, with nanowires running up to the user's mesh inserts for connectivity or it having its own wireless equivalent of a mesh insert.