CodeBreaker wrote:

I use Narcoalgorithms the same way BTL is done in Shadowrun. They are specially designed to only work for a limited amount of time, and the encryption on them is beyond the abilities of your average junkie to get rid of. If it bothers you that much make them a physical product, a chip you have to insert into your Access Jacks (Which all Synths have anyway, so thats no trouble).

That's one way to handle it. I'd assume though that in most cases such algorithms would be quickly hacked and released as free versions, just as you can download almost any software for free these days. The drug culture of today, with most drugs illegal and a thriving drug industry existing to bypass these laws, just doesn't exist in Eclipse Phase, except perhaps in some very conservative habitats (and even then... all you need to do is move). As far as I can tell, drugs aren't illegal, and few care if you partake. Being a "dealer" that are tries to make a profit by getting people hooked seems like an unwise career choice. Your customers can just create any drug they like from a maker or fabber. I'm not sure why all drugs don't have a "trivial" cost.

babayaga wrote:

In terms of drugs, major addiction yields a -10 DUR penalty, which - the way I read the rules - is constant, i.e. it's on even if you are constantly getting your fix. Two major addictions yield a hefty -20 DUR penalty. This is not a big deal if you are a discorporate infomorph, but being without a body is a serious hassle on its own (among other things because you can't get any morph aptitude bonuses) so I think it's fair. It's also not obvious to me at all that Narcoalgorithms can induce instantaneous effects. I can find it written nowhere, and computer programs can require time to boot up (e.g. because they require information from a sufficiently long slice of time). And there are times when the character may have to be resleeved into a morph because of an egocast, and the only available morph is a biological one without the gland augmentation... Finally "houseruling" for Narcoalgorithms is actually explicitly encouraged:

E.P rulebook, p.323 wrote:

[b]Almost[/b] all bio, chemical, and nano drugs can be replicated as narcoalgorithms, with corresponding effect ([b]gamemaster discretion[/b]).

(for example, drugs making the user release pheromones should not be translatable to narcoalgorithms).

You have some interesting points here. I think I've already addressed the DUR penalty: there is no way it should apply to a machine. Even in a biomorph, medichines and similar technology should mitigate it. A narcoalgorithm should take no time at all to "boot up". Not in a world where the entire human brain can "boot up" on a morph in milliseconds. This is software we are talking about. Any condition that needs to be in effect immediately can be. There is no need to simulate the gradual absorbtion of a drug into various cells of the body: you can go immediately to the effects of that drug on the thinking of an individual. The point about possibly having problems if and when you resleeved into a biomorph is very true. Essentially by partaking of narcoalgorithms this way, you are consciously abandoning any attachment to flesh and becoming more transhuman. I'm comfortable with that. I'm also agreed that certain physical effects of drugs would not occur on a machine, particularly pheremone-based effects. It's not quite clear where to draw the line with many drugs. I wish the rules on this had been more clear. What I was talking about with not discussing house rules was imposing unnecessary additional penalties for narcoalgorithm-users beyond what the rules suggest in some attempt to "balance" them. This is a setting where "game balance" does not exist as such. I'm comfortable with that, too. It is explicitly the case that if you want to abandon your humanity and become more and more a machine, you will reap significant mechanical advantages. Awesome. Let's not heap on all kinds of additional rules to make this process harder, because doing this kind of thing is what this game is about in large part.

Demonseed Elite wrote:

Yeah, narcoalgorithms really needed more than a paragraph or two of introduction, because while they may simulate the effects of drugs, they are really a whole separate thing. For instance, narcoalgorithms are software. Medichines shouldn't have any effect on them; medichines don't repair software, they repair hardware. Medichines have no effect on nanodrugs, I see even less of a reason why they'd impact a pure software modification like a narcoalgorithm. Software modification can be harmful to a cyberbrain. The way I'd house-rule narcoalgorithms, they modify the software environment of a cyberbrain, deliberately exploiting the code to achieve certain effects. They only last for a limited duration because cyberbrains include error-handling and self-correcting code that will eventually root out the narcoalgorithm and repair the damage it has done to the software environment's integrity. Much like a virus scanner for the brain. Technically, an infomorph or synth could override this self-correcting code, but doing so is dangerous. I'd play this out as less of an addiction Durability penalty as more as mental stress points. The cyberbrain is operating outside its safe parameters; after all, if there was no risk to permanently applying a narcoalgorithm, it'd basically be an enhancement, not a drug effect.

My point about medichines was merely to say they could fix any physical damage to a body caused by drugs or nargoalgorithms... though I'm agreed with you on the point that the latter simply can't cause any physical harm. Your house rule is reasonable. As the current rules stand though, narcoalgorithms basically ARE an enhancement... one that makes returning to any biomorph body very painful, ripping away parts of your brain that the physical body just can't replicate without reliance on substance abuse. This is kind of cool actually, and very in-keeping with transhumanist philosophy. It makes perfect sense to me that a cyberbrain is a more powerful computing machine than a bio-brain, assuming you boost it with the right software.

babayaga wrote:

Madwand wrote:

You have some interesting points here. I think I've already addressed the DUR penalty: there is no way it should apply to a machine. Even in a biomorph, medichines and similar technology should mitigate it.

But then, it's you who are houseruling. In this case you should not complain about the mechanics not being balanced - you should complain about them not being "realistic". Also, while I do not completely disagree about the DUR the penalty being a little stretched, I think there are in-game ways to justify it, even for machines. To look at a very simple example of software causing hardware problems even on relatively simple machines like today's, if I keep the CPU speed of my personal computer constantly on overclock, yes, my machine will "perform" better, but it's also going to be far more fragile.

Madwand wrote:

A narcoalgorithm should take no time at all to "boot up". Not in a world where the entire human brain can "boot up" on a morph in milliseconds. This is software we are talking about. Any condition that needs to be in effect immediately can be. There is no need to simulate the gradual absorbtion of a drug into various cells of the body: you can go immediately to the effects of that drug on the thinking of an individual.

My point here is similar. According to the rulebook, the basic mechanics are identical for biological drugs and narcolagorithms. You might complain about this not being realistic (though see below). But if you change the mechanics giving narcoalgorithms a boost, it's unfair to say that the rulebook mechanics give narcoalgorithms too much of an edge - *you* are giving them that edge. Also, I really, really think that it's perfectly realistic that a narcoalgorithm might take several minutes to have an effect: for example, it may need to analyze the workings of the cyberbrain and its I/O over an extended period of time to optimize certain code pathways or to decide how to cache/reorganize some frequently accessed contents.

All excellent points. I'll try to address why I've made these arguably optimistic assumptions: First, on the DUR penalty. You are trying to extend a modern analogy with overclocked processors into a future where the analogy simply doesn't apply. Eclipse Phase computers run on light, not electrons. We just can't extend an analogy like that. Further, I emphasize that narcoalgorithms are just software. They do not "overclock" anything or stress out the hardware. They simply modify how the bit of software simulating your brain does its job. Finally... even if such an algorithm DID somehow damage your body... medichines will fix it. This last applies to biomorphs, too. Second, on requiring minutes to "boot up" a narcoalgorithm. As a computer programmer, I find this ridiculous. Modern computers boot up in seconds. Eclipse Phase computers boot up in milliseconds, if that. A narcoalogorithm is a considerably less complex bit of software than an entire transhuman ego. All those things the algorithm needs to do to begin, "analyzing" your cyberbrain and I/O? Those can be done ONCE during the setup of the algorithm, and remembered each time you restart. Worst case, you can do this with your entire ego. Just save the state your ego is on when it's on drugs and restore it when you need the boost in combat. Try to keep your memories around so you aren't suddenly confused. Basically, every problem you are suggesting here has an "easy" engineering solution. This is why I am optimistic about narcoalgorithms.