Help me out - are there any reasons to go into a simulspace, and not hack the computer from without?
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Why Go Into A Simulspace?
Tue, 2011-02-15 01:00
#1
Zen Shooter
Why Go Into A Simulspace?
Tue, 2011-02-15 04:52
#2
GreyBrother
Re: Why Go Into A Simulspace?
Um... Simulspace is used for recreation and not for hacking? Reasonable enough? :/
Tue, 2011-02-15 06:50
#3
Arenamontanus
Re: Why Go Into A Simulspace?
Because you wake up inside it, with no clue of how to get out?
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Tue, 2011-02-15 09:17
#4
nezumi.hebereke
Re: Why Go Into A Simulspace?
Because that's where the vulnerabilities are?
Because there's no other access to the computer?
Because it's AWESOME?
Tue, 2011-02-15 13:00
#5
nikleonard
Re: Why Go Into A Simulspace?
Because you can do 60 days of research, training, recreation, etc... in only ONE day?
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Playing Eclipse Phase the "Chilean Way"...
Tue, 2011-02-15 14:07
#6
CodeBreaker
Re: Why Go Into A Simulspace?
You know, that is something I have been meaning to bring up on these forums for some time. While discussing whether or not Synthmorphs require sleep (They do not), my general line of argument was that sleep is a physical requirement of the meat, not of the Ego. This was basically confirmed by Rob,
"We were running with the notion that sleep was something that your biological brain hardware required for general upkeep and maintenance but that cyberbrain hardware did not have this limitation. It was also an advantage we felt that synthmorphs should have."
[url=http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=548311&page=4] Source [/url]
So my thought is that, at least for Biomorphs, Simulspace might not actually be as beneficial as some might like to think. While doing everything at Ludicrous Speed™ the brain might be being put under similarly ludicrous amounts of stress, stress that will induce a much more rapid requirement for a nap. So if you are doing your thing, x60 working in a Simulspace while your meat suit lies on a comfy sofa somewhere, you are very quickly going to burn yourself out (Within 15 minutes).
What does everyone else think about applying this to the Eclipse Phase universe, in home games that is? I ask because I am fairly sure it would have massive repercussions on the arguments about why everyone doesn't just stick their workers in x60 space for a month and pump out enough creative material to last a decade. It also stacks favour even farther onto Infomorphs and Synthmorphs for the most optimal workforce, and enforces the disconnect between optimal choices and social pressures for not being a walking, talking toaster.
TL;DR, Simulspace induces sleep in Biomorphs extremely rapidly. Thoughts?
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Tue, 2011-02-15 14:36
#7
nezumi.hebereke
Re: Why Go Into A Simulspace?
If sleep/wake cycles are both sped up, that's okay - you work hard for 15 minutes, nap for ten, work for 15 and so on and the end result is the same. If the sleep/wake cycles aren't shifted at all it's still fine - you work for 16 hours, sleep for 8, and so on. Only if the wake cycle is sped up but the sleep is kept at the same speed is it an issue (which may be the case), in which case you're working for 15 minutes, sleeping for 8 hours - but it's still a major advantage. With 6-hour sleeping periods, you're increasing your work by a factor of 4. Not exactly 60, but nothing to sneeze at.
Tue, 2011-02-15 14:43
#8
CodeBreaker
Re: Why Go Into A Simulspace?
I was intending it to be the latter. If sleep function is a biological requirement, I can see no reason that Simulspace would speed it up. If that is the case, it makes Simulspace (At least at really high speed increases) a fun toy for biologicals, but also quite dangerous and not something that can really be used on an industrial scale.
A hypercorp could still request that all employees submerge themselves into sped up timescapes, such that they do a full days work in 15 minutes, but after that they would have to come out, sleep, and then they are free to do whatever they want. It essentially frees up a biologicals day by a fairly large amount. Anyone with Biomods only requires 4 hours of sleep, so a person wakes up, does their daily work in simulspace, goes back to sleep for 4 hours and wakes up with a good 16 hours of their day left to do whatever they want.
Meanwhile those damn Synthmorphs/Infomorphs can work around the clock. Damn Synthmorphs, taking our jobs! DOWN WITH THE TOASTERS! Rabble rabble rabble.
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Tue, 2011-02-15 17:49
#9
Arenamontanus
Re: Why Go Into A Simulspace?
As a neuroscientist I find this notion pretty implausible and will never run with it. While the real reasons for sleep remain pretty mysterious today, we are fairly confident that a key function that happens during sleep is memory consolidation. There is a need for a downtime where what has been learned during the day can be moved from intermediary memory in the hippocampus (and maybe the basal ganglia for procedural memories) to the cortex. Even if a cyberbrain can dispense with whatever other functions sleep has, this consolidation needs to happen - and it involves reactivating past activity patterns across the cortex, something which likely doesn't go well together with actually using it (hence the dolphins habit of sleeping with one hemisphere at a time). Maybe a cyberbrain fixes this by implementing an entirely different consolidation mechanism, but that sounds like people sleeved in cyberbrains are more AGIs than their original neural networks.
But I do agree with you that biomorphs cannot run at Ludicrous Speed™ efficently. Just consider the I/O requirements: the visual cortex *physically* cannot handle scenery running past in x60 speed. You need to send in a fork and re-merge instead.
The future is software. But for the time being it is meat who owns the place... just like once upon a time land-owning nobility watched with some wonder what those engineers were up to down at the mill. But as long as they pay rent, who cares about those steam engines?
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Wed, 2011-02-16 10:48
#10
nezumi.hebereke
Re: Why Go Into A Simulspace?
Couldn't you just shut off parts of the brain, or have a 'backup brain' which engages in 'sleep processes' while the primary brain continues to work?
Wed, 2011-02-16 10:49
#11
nezumi.hebereke
Re: Why Go Into A Simulspace?
Another response to the OP - hacking may be easier through the system's intended interface. What's the easiest way to hack Windows XP? Through the Control Panel.
Wed, 2011-02-16 16:20
#12
Arenamontanus
Re: Why Go Into A Simulspace?
I had this suggestion in this other thread that brought up the question (see also Mirrorfields idea right after mine):
http://www.eclipsephase.com/slavery-eclipse-phase#comment-9590
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Fri, 2011-02-18 11:08
#13
matthew_lane
Re: Why Go Into A Simulspace?
Got one: A Dormant Titan has been split up into 6 parts & has been hidden in a simulspace adventure (& access will be sold by a masterful criminal hacker to all interested parties, including firewall). The actual code is impossible to access from the outside because its constantly shifting, disguising its self from search attempts. However from inside the game its easy enough to find (its a physcial object within the game-world). The designer of this particular simulspace never intended for it to actually be played by outsiders, it was just an easy place to hide the data. The problem is that the Titan is not slumbering as peacefully as it should be & its starting to assert control over the simulspace characters (monsters & NPC's), upping the damage & stopping the program from shutting down. Due to the time shift affect it will take exactly 24 hours real time before the titan AI can assert enough control over the program to have complete control of the server & escape its confines.
Its upto the Firewall team to go into the game & recover the AI pieces, so they can destroy them... Even though the other players are already inside, looking for the same goal (though they probably don't want to destroy them)
-M
Sat, 2011-02-19 10:19
#14
Decivre
Re: Why Go Into A Simulspace?
Intravenous drip cocktail of nutrition and adrenaline... problem solved!
New problem discovered, cardiac arrest imminent....
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Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.
[url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
