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Fake Politicians

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Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture
Fake Politicians
In Japan, right now, there is a character called Hatsune Miku, someone I'm sure many of you are familiar with. Miss Miku, for the unfamiliar, is a pop-star who has concerts all over Japan and is quite famous. She's also entirely digital. Hatsune's digital character is sometimes mocked by outsiders, but those who follow are quick to defend that there is nothing "real" about the lives of many flesh-and-blood pop stars, and stars from other fields, especially in the wake of manufactured groups like the Backstreet Boys and individuals like Justin Beiber, none of whom were "real" in the sense of anything about their public life being anything less than crafted by the media specialists of the companies that created them. I've been thinking, though: People accept this a lot. There's fake celebrities and brand characters who all represent something or another. All a representative is, is a being who stands for a certain collective of ideals and implementing them. This begs the inevitable question, of course: Why not fake politicians? After all, politicians are just people put in place as representatives of the will of the people. Why not allow people to vote in a fake politician, who has the backing of a group of individuals for their policies instead of being a single, corruptible entity? This group would choose the policy, be it big or small, allowing the intelligent to pair nicely with the charismatic and create a forged identity that has all their strengths and none of their weaknesses. Moving into the realm of Eclipse Phase, what about creating a blanket AGI? Cyberdemocracy allows everyone to vote on everything, but staying so well-informed can be difficult, so why not allow people to vote on big-ticket issues and create a gestalt entity that seeks to enforce these ideals? Not to ramble, but what do people think of Muses voting on various issues in cyberdemocracies for their owners, based on their master's views? I sort of got off point, but I think you can see what I'm saying: If we can have meta-celebrities, why not meta-politicians?
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Fake Politicians
Sure! Most political leaders are mere front figures for a tight team of (hopefully competent) staff and allies; it might be more honest to elect the team straight away under the heading of the fictional politician. In Karl Schroeder's "Lady of Mazes" a political system is described where AGIs pop up when enough political will for something accumulates, and then they try to implement it in the system parliament.
Extropian
Draconis Draconis's picture
Re: Fake Politicians
Ah "Idoru" debates. Wait a sec, all politicians are fake already. Uh to answer your question why bother with the politician at all? As you said people are flawed, corruptible. Some people are prone to forming opinions and prejudices based on who's conveying the idea rather then the idea itself. Why not just package the meme all nice and skip the middleman? Who'd trust an AGI to enforce their ideals? How very Tron like. That sounds very TITAN to me. Just try getting anyone to agree to that even if an AGI is benevolent and the best qualified. Muses? Does my toaster, microwave, and fridge get a vote too? }; ) Yes I know it's the owners vote right? When the vote doesn't come directly from the source you're treading some dangerous ground. You didn't even touch on forks. Do they get votes too? Infomorphs? Uplifts? Can't I just uplift a few pods of dolphins and win an election? Or code some friends to do the same?

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Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Fake Politicians
An interesting take on this is cybernetic demarchy. In current proposals for demarchy people are selected randomly for political duty, a bit like the Anglo-Saxon system of jury duty. This is of course cumbersome. But in EP you could send a beta fork to do the politics. Using the muse instead is not that strange: it presumably knows your views and motivations and could directly input them into online polling systems. Alastair Reynolds has somewhat similar ideas in a few of the Revelation Space books, perhaps most clearly expressed in "The Prefect". There he also discusses some clever ideas of how to make the online polling give higher weight to more competent people. However, given primate politics and the fact that most of the political system is about legitimacy and representativeness, not correct decisions, having suitably interesting characters in office will likely be popular. Real, imaginary or fake, it doesn't matter much.
Extropian
The Green Slime The Green Slime's picture
Re: Fake Politicians
Just how prevalent is representative democracy in EP? The Inner System is all keiretsu hypercorps, then there's a military junta, and then the outer system is a patchwork of newfangled post-anarcho-syndicalistic rep-based weirdness the mechanics of which likely change quicker than the Saturnian wind. I tend to imagine most famous personages in EP as media constructs. Almost all famous faces are simply masks donned by selected performers, or teams thereof, who have signed over their minds for some length of time to a psychosurgery-induced delusion. This is of course common knowledge, but just like pro-wrestling, everybody suspends their disbelief and has fun with it anyway. The actual 'personality' behind a famous face is totally unimportant, as is the supposed talents for which one might assume they have been elevated because of: the celeb's sole purpose is to serve as prominent mascot, a reference point to signal loyalty and belonging, and guiding attention to a wider constellation of products, services, opinions and information conducive to the celeb's sponsors. I don't see any reason why politicians should be any different, considering politics is entertainment working on behalf of advertising. Maybe in the outer system somebody's attempting some open source AGI design projects - WikiGovern! Whoever wins the edit wars gets their policies enforced.
nick012000 nick012000's picture
Re: Fake Politicians
Actually, only Go-Nin is a kieretsu, IIRC; all the other hypercorps are thinner, leaner, and more agile competitors. Besides, the Planetary Consortium and Jovian Republic are both in theory representative republics; it's just that the hypercorps and military, respectively, hold the real power.

+1 r-Rep , +1 @-rep

Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Fake Politicians
The Green Slime wrote:
Just how prevalent is representative democracy in EP? The Inner System is all keiretsu hypercorps, then there's a military junta, and then the outer system is a patchwork of newfangled post-anarcho-syndicalistic rep-based weirdness the mechanics of which likely change quicker than the Saturnian wind.
Well, Sunwards deals with some detail with the representative democracy of the Consortium. While the text plays up how fake it is, the fact that the Morningstar Constellation could leave the Consortium after a referendum suggests that it is not that toothless (consider California or Britain leaving their respective union after a referendum). So if that counts as democracy, then a sizeable chunk of transhumans are living in representative democracies. It should be noted that plenty of habitats likely run on some derivative of representative democracy. Small enough habitats will likely be having an informal hierarchy with the captain as "the big man", larger (150+ inhabitants) will need some structure to function. And beyond 150 people you no longer know everybody, so representatives will start to be necessary.
Extropian
nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture
Re: Fake Politicians
Wow, this is great (and very timely). A 'virtual' person also has the advantage of being able to campaign and chat, directly, with millions of people simultaneously without all the concerns of forking and merging. It may not be a full AGI, but it doesn't take an AGI to fool people into enjoying some light conversation and agreeing with them on their political views. Re: voters, having worked as an election judge, I imagine most people would set their muses to automatically vote for people or motions based on their party affiliation or some other stupid trait. Anything to avoid thinking. Democracies probably require the voter actually affirm the vote, but the muse can pre-populate the ballot and the voter just selects 'okay'. Not a huge deal. What I do wonder is, given the move towards souveillance and reputation networks, are votes still private? In the Consortium and the Republic, probably (they being a bit more conservative). But on Titan? Wouldn't making voting history public be the best way to deal with people voting for stupid stuff?
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Fake Politicians
nezumi.hebereke wrote:
What I do wonder is, given the move towards souveillance and reputation networks, are votes still private? In the Consortium and the Republic, probably (they being a bit more conservative). But on Titan? Wouldn't making voting history public be the best way to deal with people voting for stupid stuff?
There are several arguments for private voting. It prevents buying votes ("Everyone voting for me will get access to my pleasure-simspace!"), it prevents harassment for voting for controversial positions ("I can't stay married to someone voting for Nabeth!"), and it prevents governments with violence monopolies from punishing people who did not vote for them ("Grep me a list of disloyal citizens, AI."). These arguments are still valid in an open society. The problem with discouraging people from voting for stupid stuff is that "stupid stuff" is usually defined by the incumbents in power. A lot of political struggle is about convincing enough of society that female suffrage/climate change/mandatory cortical stacks are *not* silly and a serious issue. Similarly for politicians - if we demand only high quality people (measured somehow) in office, there are going to be rather few to choose from, and they might not even reflect what most of us believe. A typical example is how economists have a fairly strong consensus on economy different from most voters and politicians - either they are horribly biased or they know some stuff the rest of us chose to ignore. Ideally, we want people in power to represent us and our values, and then they get to use whatever expertise they can gather to figure out how to implement them. I would expect voting on Titan to be secret, but people can certainly contribute openly to the political process. It might be as simple as a comment on the talk page of a proposed bill to constructing a new political institution and trying to get the majority to accept it as a valid addition to the political system.
Extropian
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: Fake Politicians
Not only do I think that fake politicians are a possibility, you already see hints of the concept today. Colbert has made quite the living as a fake political pundit. It's not that much further to become a fake politician... one designed to be more of a character than an actual person. In fact, I can think of one person who just might already be a real fake "politician", albeit he doesn't run for office. Fred Phelps has become so villainized within American culture, that his open declarations have basically become a "repellent" for ultra-conservative values. It would not surprise me in the [b]least[/i] if it turned out that his banter, protests and displays were simply a way to push people toward more liberal views. Of course, I might just be having a more optimistic look on someone who otherwise seems observe near-monstrous views and profess outlandishly-horrific beliefs.
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The Green Slime The Green Slime's picture
Re: Fake Politicians
^ Add to that list Coulter, O'Reilly, Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, Savage... I've always thought it very naive to consider these people to be engaged in anything more than outré theatrics.