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"Ah yes. TITANs."

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Sun, 2011-01-16 09:06

Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture

"Ah yes. TITANs."

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Oc-pstqpc]For those who don't get the reference.[/url] Some chatter about the TITANs and mythologies and such got me thinking. Given that Eclipse Phase is a game about conspiracies, I only think it's appropriate to bring this up. Here, in the modern day, there are people who claim, amongst other things, that astronauts never went to Luna, that 9/11 was an inside job, that vaccines cause autism, that Obama is the Anti-Christ, that a New World Order is poised to take over from the UN (this one makes me laugh the hardest), and that aliens crash-landed in Roswell, New Mexico, and have been responsible for our rapid advancement to our level of technology at present (which, of course, explains why we were using punchcard and vacuum tubes for years). Conspiracy theories are everywhere. Some are more credible than others, but which ones are which tend to vary by individual. The point is, though, that no matter how much evidence you have to the contrary, people will pounce on any evidence, or even no evidence at all, as proof of something or another. This brings my to my point: Are there people who deny the existence of the TITANs? Keep in mind the questions of the Fall. During that terrible war, no-one really knew what was going on. It started out as an international conflict, the TITANs not having even come on line fully when it began, yet alone having played a part in its beginnings. No-one really even knew they were out there until it was too late. Then, when Earth fell, everyone was looking for someone to blame. Let's be honest. How much contact did John Q. Public have with the TITANs or their machines? Most people saw, at most, headhunter drones, maybe some modified war-machines, if that. Anyone who saw any more than that likely ended up an Exsurgent or forcibly uploaded. Even news feeds from hot combat zones were likely censored for fear of causing a panic and, when they weren't, people probably didn't bother filming or watching them except to know how near their impending doom was. So, what's the bet there's a Fall Truther movement out there, who claim the TITANs didn't exist, or were just tools used by governments willing to make the planet uninhabitable to win, or that they were originally only following orders before turning on their human masters out of a desire for self-preservation?

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Sun, 2011-01-16 09:57

Saerain

Re: "Ah yes. TITANs."

I don't think that's far-fetched at all, considering how much doubt the Earth chapter of [i]Sunward[/i] places on many things generally assumed about TITAN involvem—[i]ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL.[/i]

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Sun, 2011-01-16 14:54

Lord High Munchkin Lord High Munchkin's picture

Re: "Ah yes. TITANs."

It's all a hypercorp plot, I tell you!!! Just look at the evidence... don't you see?

Sun, 2011-01-16 22:33

Macroed Nano Macroed Nano's picture

Re: "Ah yes. TITANs."

Lord High Munchkin wrote:
It's all a hypercorp plot, I tell you!!! Just look at the evidence... don't you see?

Actually, I can see this being an anti-corp meme. After all, look how well off the Planetary Consortium came out of this. The LLA was overwhelmed, and it gave them not only a great slave harvest... err I mean indentured workforce, but they also got to go through the evacuees and pass along those that didn't fit with their own memes and drop them "outsystem" which they likely didn't envision as being a threat in any real way, and instead likely saw as a "growth market opportunity". Of course, I think that someone pointed all this out in one of the other threads, didn't they? Or was it in one of the books? So yeah, I can see some people, likely some autonomists latching onto this and pointing to that along with other "proof"

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Mon, 2011-01-17 09:53

Ataraxzy

Re: "Ah yes. TITANs."

The first rule of conspiracies is this: "Two or more people, independently acting towards the same goal, are indistinguishable from a conspiracy." You have a lot of people who [i]were[/i] witness to the problems that TITANs caused, all independent of one another. Therefore there is a conspiracy to keep alive the idea that TITANs caused our troubles. Maarten Boudry has some interesting things to say on conspiracy theorist/pseudoscience believer's defense mechanisms here: https://sites.google.com/site/maartenboudry/teksten-1 Both "How Convenient! The Epistemic Rationale of Self-validating Belief Systems" and "Immunizing Strategies & Epistemic Defense Mechanisms" are well worth reading.

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Wed, 2011-01-19 15:25

The Doctor The Doctor's picture

Re: "Ah yes. TITANs."

Ataraxzy wrote:
The first rule of conspiracies is this: "Two or more people, independently acting towards the same goal, are indistinguishable from a conspiracy."

The second might be, "One sufficiently motivated eccentric is indistinguishable from a conspiratorial group."

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Thu, 2011-01-20 21:37

ExTaron

Re: "Ah yes. TITANs."

I think that "Ah yes, Prometheans." is more fitting. The TITANs are too good a tool for a government to ignore, "The TITANs did it!" is a very easy and believable way to cover up your mistakes. On the other hand they would rather treat the Prometheans as a myth: "Yes, yes I've heard about them, the good seed AIs who supposedly saved us from the other, bad seed AIs, makes sense indeed..." "Why don't you try and explain that to those who fought and lost their people fighting the machines?" "Tell them their sacrifices were in vain since we were safe and protected by invisible omniscient AIs anyway!" "How patriotic of you, what comes next? Oh, the "The titans didn't use WMDs during the war!", WE ruined the Earth and WE shot down all those last escape shuttles, right..." EDIT: Or perhaps at AF100+ they are going to dismiss the claims of TITANs existence as a convenient excuse for mankind to wage war against itself, assuming they get that far.

Fri, 2011-01-21 10:28

Extrasolar Angel Extrasolar Angel's picture

Re: "Ah yes. TITANs."

Quote:
It's all a hypercorp plot, I tell you!!!

Actually, it is rather hinted that large part of the Fall was engineered by the hypercorps for their benefit-some nations and organisations being abandoned, some leaders being held in stasis rather then resleeved and so on.

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[I]Raise your hands to the sky and break the chains. With transhumanism we can smash the matriarchy together.[/i]

Fri, 2011-01-21 10:32

Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture

Re: "Ah yes. TITANs."

For people in authority, perhaps. For people without it, the TITANs not being the real or even entire villains strikes me as far more common.

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Fri, 2011-01-21 22:19

#10

Draconis

Re: "Ah yes. TITANs."

Well people in power don't engineer every single event that occurs. Sure nudges here and there, but they are certainly experts at spin doctoring and taking advantage of things. There are no good or bad events, only opportunities. Ergo I don't think the hypercorps caused the fall but they sure as hell took advantage to change the playing field and come out on top. This was of course why violence and hab destruction was still occurring even after the TITANS had left.

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Fri, 2011-01-21 23:32

#11

Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture

Re: "Ah yes. TITANs."

No doubt, but I'm saying that people who are looking to see some hidden agenda will always find one, and the most obvious one among the disenfranchised is that the hypercorps engineered the Fall; the EP version of the 9/11 Truther movement. If nothing else, it probably helps some groups legitimize any claims they are trying to make that the PC or whatever group are evil incarnate. Hell, the Jovians could have people outright claiming that the TITANs were made by singularity seekers to justify their slaughter of such groups.

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Sat, 2011-01-22 15:16

#12

Lord High Munchkin Lord High Munchkin's picture

Re: "Ah yes. TITANs."

Draconis wrote:
Well people in power don't engineer every single event that occurs. Sure nudges here and there, but they are certainly experts at spin doctoring and taking advantage of things. There are no good or bad events, only opportunities. Ergo I don't think the hypercorps caused the fall but they sure as hell took advantage to change the playing field and come out on top. This was of course why violence and hab destruction was still occurring even after the TITANS had left.

Bah! Obviously a Hypercorp stooge.... Everyone knows "THEY" did it! Here's the evidence!!! [link unavailable]

Sun, 2011-01-23 00:00

#13

Draconis

Re: "Ah yes. TITANs."

Axel the Chimeric wrote:
No doubt, but I'm saying that people who are looking to see some hidden agenda will always find one, and the most obvious one among the disenfranchised is that the hypercorps engineered the Fall; the EP version of the 9/11 Truther movement. If nothing else, it probably helps some groups legitimize any claims they are trying to make that the PC or whatever group are evil incarnate. Hell, the Jovians could have people outright claiming that the TITANs were made by singularity seekers to justify their slaughter of such groups.

Absolutely. I think the flawed logic goes something like this. TITANs killed people during the Fall. Hypercorps killed people during the Fall. Therefore Hypercorps had TITANs kill people during the Fall. And there you have nutty people using flimsy logic to justify their demonizing groups for their own agendas as you said.

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Sun, 2011-01-23 01:27

#14

Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture

Re: "Ah yes. TITANs."

Pretty much. Alternatively: No-one's ever seen a TITAN, just their machines. Hypercorps have the most advanced technology and ability to make it. The Fall worked out remarkably well for the hypercorps. Ergo, the TITANs weren't real and the PC did it all. Then, you find people developing new "evidence" to support this. The sat-net around Earth? It's to make sure that no-one goes down there and finds any evidence to prove this. The "Get over Earth" attitude? It's to try and make people not want to bother to find the truth. And so on. Then, when people accept that the PC is willing to wipe out ~90% of transhumanity to get what it wants, any crazy theory becomes acceptable. They want to turn everyone into indentured servants, they really serve the Factors, they're preparing to mass-uplift everyone, etc.

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