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the lost, the scum and the corporate bitch

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Sun, 2011-01-02 15:25

fafromnice fafromnice's picture

the lost, the scum and the corporate bitch

let's face it ... poor people will always exist so i'm questionning myself in a rep economical system : Who are the poor ? Who don't have the basic need (other than infugee) ? Who are working for less than 1 credit a day ? I was thinking the mentally ill, it's difficult to a bipolar (without the proper medication) to work all year ... etc. what are your tought ?

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What do you mean a butterfly cause this ? How a butterfly can cause an enviromental system overload on the other side of a 10 000 egos habitat ?

Sun, 2011-01-02 16:15

nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture

Re: the lost, the scum and the corporate bitch

Firstly you're going to have to figure out a definition of 'poor'. Is poor someone who is not getting their basic nutritional needs seen to? Who cannot afford leisure time to pursue their own interests? Anarchists generally don't have 'credits', so they work, hard, for 0 credits an hour. Yet it seems it would be a stretch to call them 'poor' because they have a higher luxury rate, and their needs are better cared for, than some of those poor bastards on Mars, even though the latter make infinitely more credits per hour of work.

Sun, 2011-01-02 18:04

Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture

Re: the lost, the scum and the corporate bitch

Y'know, I have to wonder if the anarchists aren't resentful of the "poor". Not the credit-poor of the inner system, but of the poor of their own habitat. After all, in a rep-based society, you earn based on your willingness to work and follow the golden rule of "Don't be a dick". Someone who's poor in that sort of society is either mentally ill, antisocial, or just plain lazy and/or untalented. That would strike me as the sort of society to bring out a Social Darwinism that'd make even the most autocratic hypercorp personnel seem kind by comparison...

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[img]http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/982/exhumanbar.jpg[/img] [img]http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/4473/scumbar.jpg[/img] [img]http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/1396/gatecrasherbar.jpg[/img] [code][@-rep +1, f-rep +2][/code]

Mon, 2011-01-03 02:52

It that must no... It that must not be named's picture

Re: the lost, the scum and the corporate bitch

When you say "the lost" do you mean the ones who were created as an emergency replacement for human ity and mostly went insane? And do the ones who survived in a functional state have to hide their past or are they accepted?

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"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." -Jesse "the mind" Ventura.

Mon, 2011-01-03 10:54

Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture

Re: the lost, the scum and the corporate bitch

People who are bad at fitting into the social system are going to be poor in a reputation economy. To some degree this is of course true in all possible economies, but it is especially nasty when all your resources are due to the respect from fellow citizens. Some people simply lack the social abilities to get along with others (due to personality, lack of intelligence, lack of social skills or being in the wrong kind of out-group) and will get a bad rep. The annoying loner that nobody wants to deal with is going to be excluded. This is not the same thing as just being asocial: the Asperger guy who cannot stand direct interaction with others can still be successful in this economy by dealing with others indirectly across the mesh. His handle has a high rep, despite the transhuman being awkward. The competent abrasive guy on the other hand might have an intermediary rep due to his competence, but it constantly gets dragged down by his social faux pas - which often makes him even angrier, feeding the cycle. In a money economy *who* you are is less important to how much money you can earn or have than in a reputation economy. The billionaire might be a bastard, but his money is still good. Mentally ill people are of course likely to be among the lowest of the low in a rep economy (I am currently writing up a post about mental health care across the solar system, and the autonomist angle on it is slightly disturbing IMHO) If it is just bipolar disorder you can of course get it treated when you are in your right mind, but with a personality disorder you think you are fine, it is everybody else who is an idiot - *you* don't need a cure! There are also people who have done something truly bad, and now their rep is stuck. So, you accidentally depressurized module R, killing 500? That is going to be held against you for a *long* time.

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Mon, 2011-01-03 23:51

fafromnice fafromnice's picture

Re: the lost, the scum and the corporate bitch

It that must not be named wrote:
When you say "the lost" do you mean the ones who were created as an emergency replacement for human ity and mostly went insane? And do the ones who survived in a functional state have to hide their past or are they accepted?

nope I was thinking more of the guy who is lost in the system but the question is good Lost, AGI and other social stigma would have an impact on you rep right ?

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What do you mean a butterfly cause this ? How a butterfly can cause an enviromental system overload on the other side of a 10 000 egos habitat ?

Tue, 2011-01-04 08:59

valen

Re: the lost, the scum and the corporate bitch

fafromnice wrote:
It that must not be named wrote:
When you say "the lost" do you mean the ones who were created as an emergency replacement for human ity and mostly went insane? And do the ones who survived in a functional state have to hide their past or are they accepted?
nope I was thinking more of the guy who is lost in the system but the question is good Lost, AGI and other social stigma would have an impact on you rep right ?

Yes, as would any other prejudice of the population at large. Imagine being an uplift and trying to make a living in a rep economy on a habitat run by (trans)human supremacists.

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Tue, 2011-01-04 12:44

Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture

Re: the lost, the scum and the corporate bitch

valen wrote:
Yes, as would any other prejudice of the population at large. Imagine being an uplift and trying to make a living in a rep economy on a habitat run by (trans)human supremacists.

Worse, a member who publicly shows their disloyalty by not being rude against the uplift may lose rep. Rep is a great way of enforcing social norms.

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Wed, 2011-01-05 00:40

fafromnice fafromnice's picture

Re: the lost, the scum and the corporate bitch

Arenamontanus][quote=valen wrote:
Worse, a member who publicly shows their disloyalty by not being rude against the uplift may lose rep. Rep is a great way of enforcing social norms.

this is really not cool :P

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What do you mean a butterfly cause this ? How a butterfly can cause an enviromental system overload on the other side of a 10 000 egos habitat ?

Thu, 2011-01-06 18:43

#10

root

Re: the lost, the scum and the corporate bitch

root@The Lost, the Scum, and the Corporate Bitch [hr]

Arenamontanus wrote:
Some people simply lack the social abilities to get along with others (due to personality, lack of intelligence, lack of social skills or being in the wrong kind of out-group) and will get a bad rep. The annoying loner that nobody wants to deal with is going to be excluded.

Well, shit. I'm boned.

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[ @-rep +1 | c-rep +1 | g-rep +1 | r-rep +1 ]

Fri, 2011-01-07 04:47

#11

nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture

Re: the lost, the scum and the corporate bitch

Don't worry, brother. I figure we're okay as long as we stick to the internets...

Fri, 2011-01-07 10:40

#12

Ataraxzy

Re: the lost, the scum and the corporate bitch

fafromnice wrote:
valen wrote:
Worse, a member who publicly shows their disloyalty by not being rude against the uplift may lose rep. Rep is a great way of enforcing social norms.
this is really not cool :P

It gets worse. How does a Rep system defend itself from the e-bay effect: Where receiving anything less than 5 stars across the board is seen as socially (and therefore morally*) wrong? How does a Rep system defend itself from the problems inherent in having a small activist group who place a very high value on one particular thing seemingly unrelated to Rep skew the system? Remember, most people are apathetic about most things most of the time. A relatively small group can seriously impact the Rep of lots of different people relatively easily, simply by caring more about acting upon their impulse more than the majority care about defending against it. How does a Rep system substitute for actual research and knowledge? Sure, [i]I[/i] know that Richard Stallman writes great code and has been instrumental in starting the FOSS movement, as well as contributing to several foundations dedicated to freedom of information, but how is THAT information encoded in a Rep score? How does a Rep system defend itself from vicious cycles? How does a Rep system defend itself from people figuring out high-rep, low effort activities? Don't get me wrong, Capitalism has all of these problems and [i]more[/i], but Rep systems are entirely dependent upon human psychology, and humans, even transhumans are going to be prone to biases, judgementalism, and poor information. Biases like the Confirmation Bias are exceedingly difficult to recognize, the Dunning-Kruger Effect is even harder. Then there's the all too human tendency to actively punish BOTH freeloaders and overachievers. Maybe all of these problems can be solved, but more honestly, you're probably going to end up with the same upward wealth redistribution problems Capitalism has. *Most people don't have philosophical training and are unable/unwilling understand that there's even a difference'.

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Fri, 2011-01-07 11:50

#13

Extrasolar Angel Extrasolar Angel's picture

Re: the lost, the scum and the corporate bitch

Quote:
People who are bad at fitting into the social system are going to be poor in a reputation economy.

Yup. No eccentric and unliked geniuses in rep economy. You better like our tastes and fashion citizen, or there will be no money for you! Anybody was ever at corporate integration indoctri-I mean party? Now imagine you have to do this every day. Smiling to people you despise and hate, because judging on the way they like you, your life will depend. Rep-economy is quite a tyrannical system of social oppression.

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[I]Raise your hands to the sky and break the chains. With transhumanism we can smash the matriarchy together.[/i]

Fri, 2011-01-07 12:13

#14

Rhyx

Re: the lost, the scum and the corporate bitch

Quote:
Yup. No eccentric and unliked geniuses in rep economy. You better like our tastes and fashion citizen, or there will be no money for you!

See I have to disagree about that because actions always speak louder than words. For example, look at Steve Jobs. Over time he has become one of the most despised figures and yet does he make products that people buy, yes. Your unliked genius is safe and sound because he will be hidden under layers and layers of media spin, press attaches and vetted public disclosure document. So don't worry the fake smiles are going to be for the common man. Besides for another point of view look at French media. The more insufferable an artist is the more successful he becomes. People watch entertainment to see the train crashes and to be shocked. If not explain to me why people still talk about Brittany Spears and why Robert Downy Jr. is not blacklisted from Hollywood. Case and point people like assholes as long as they don't have to deal with them personally. Some people might actually like your genius more because "He's so real!" "He's confident in his abilities" "He has a no bullshit attitude." Actually one of my favorite quotes from Shadowrun goes something paraphrased like this: "We lock him in a cubicle and ever so often we throw some food or a blow up sex doll over the partition and what we get back is killer code." Your genius can always get locked in cubicle and get stuff tossed to him.

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[img]http://boxall.no-ip.org/img/A_Rep.jpg[/img] 2 [img]http://boxall.no-ip.org/img/R_Rep.jpg[/img] 7 [img]http://boxall.no-ip.org/img/C_Rep.jpg[/img] 2
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Fri, 2011-01-07 13:49

#15

The Doctor The Doctor's picture

Re: the lost, the scum and the corporate bitch

nezumi.hebereke wrote:
Don't worry, brother. I figure we're okay as long as we stick to the internets...

There is plenty of RAM and CPU power for the three of us. Just stay out of /home/tmp/fooble. Really.

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Fri, 2011-01-07 20:10

#16

Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture

Re: the lost, the scum and the corporate bitch

Extrasolar Angel wrote:
Quote:
People who are bad at fitting into the social system are going to be poor in a reputation economy.
Yup. No eccentric and unliked geniuses in rep economy. You better like our tastes and fashion citizen, or there will be no money for you! Anybody was ever at corporate integration indoctri-I mean party? Now imagine you have to do this every day. Smiling to people you despise and hate, because judging on the way they like you, your life will depend. Rep-economy is quite a tyrannical system of social oppression.

Which is why I MUCH prefer a transitional economy to a rep only economy. human being doesn't like what is different. He has proved it throughout history, and for all his promises and pipe dreamed utopia, he will not change, even to the face of extinction. Transitional economy provides the necessities to its user, and doesn't rely on a subjective bargain chip such as what other thinks of him or her.

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