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Habitat Weather

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Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture
Habitat Weather
This is something that's been bugging me for a while, for reasons both practical and aesthetic: Would habitats have weather? Now, the obvious answer is that smaller habitats with few open spaces, such as tin can habs or beehives, don't have weather patterns; there's simply nowhere for them to form. However, in the enormous cylinder habitats, I have to wonder, especially given how they have day and night cycles. This, combined with the fact that there are habitats described as being modeled on rainforests, suggests that rain exists in habitats, but it's never clarified if this is from natural weather systems, artificial ones, or simply sprinklers in a central spire to simulate rain. So, does anyone have anything to say about this? I'd love to hear more. Personally, I find extreme comfort in rain, and the idea of rainforest habs appeals to me greatly, especially if it's something that "naturally" occurs.
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Habitat Weather
Axel the Chimeric wrote:
This is something that's been bugging me for a while, for reasons both practical and aesthetic: Would habitats have weather? Now, the obvious answer is that smaller habitats with few open spaces, such as tin can habs or beehives, don't have weather patterns; there's simply nowhere for them to form. However, in the enormous cylinder habitats, I have to wonder, especially given how they have day and night cycles. This, combined with the fact that there are habitats described as being modeled on rainforests, suggests that rain exists in habitats, but it's never clarified if this is from natural weather systems, artificial ones, or simply sprinklers in a central spire to simulate rain.
The shuttle assembly building apparently is large enough to get condensation that forms small indoors clouds... For smaller habitats the weather will be controlled by sprinkler systems and similar. You need a certain size in order to get spontaneously formed weather. This is determined by the Rayleigh number of the habitat. When this is more than ~1000 convection will start happening. Let's see now... for air around 20 C, kinematic viscosity is 1.923e-6 m/s^2, thermal diffusivity 19e-6 m^2/s, thermal expansion 3.43e-3 per Kelvin. Let's assume a 0.5 g habitat with temperature differences on the order of 1 degrees. Then I get Ra = x^3*(1*0.5*9.82*3.43e-3)/(1.923e-6*19e-6)=x^3*460e6 where x is the size. That is definitely enough to get convection currents even one the one meter scale! (I should have known that, just looking at the dust in the air in my room) So air will tend to flow if there are fairly small temperature differences in the habitat. But to get a cloud you need more. In the atmosphere cloud sizes are presumably affected by the scale height, which is 8 km on Earth and 16 km on this habitat - most habitats are small enough that there is no pressure difference between the axis and the "ground". Also important are the temperature differences again: will there be parts of the habitat where moisture will condense freely in the air? This depends on whether the temperature goes below the dewpoint of water, which in turn depends on how much water there is in the air. For a comfortable habitat this ought to be around 10 C, but in very moist habitats it can be higher. I suspect it is hard to get "proper" clouds. In particular, rain requires that a droplet falls through enough cloud so that it can accumulate moisture to become large - given EP habitat sizes even the best "natural" cloud will likely produce little more than a drizzle on its own. My guess is that a habitat not built to have a weather will still have some related behaviour - air will tend to flow, moisture condenses on cold surfaces and drips down. This is likely undesirable. So a well-built habitat will try to make sure these things at least happens where you want them. They will have a "cyborg weather" which is partially spontaneous, partially controlled by sprinklers, heating/cooling systems and air conditioning.
Extropian
Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture
Re: Habitat Weather
Hmmm... I suppose it makes more sense to have it be artificially generated, but it takes away from the natural splendor when you have control over it; rain is far more precious when unpredictable, at least to me. There's so many questions I can't answer here, like how having open bodies of water might affect this, or altering the temperature, or the overall size of the habitat (take Progress, for example), and the reduced gravity. I suppose I might have to settle for AR clouds and an AI randomly fluctuating the weather patterns...
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Habitat Weather
Axel the Chimeric wrote:
Hmmm... I suppose it makes more sense to have it be artificially generated, but it takes away from the natural splendor when you have control over it; rain is far more precious when unpredictable, at least to me.
You could build a system that does this in an unpredictable way. Not even a computer with a random number generator, but a mechanical/hydraulic system linked to the weather that produces the right kind of chaotic dynamics. The amount of rain, wind and heat in different places influences future weather in a complex but regular way, producing a nonrandom "real" weather despite that some components are pumps and sun reflectors.
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There's so many questions I can't answer here, like how having open bodies of water might affect this, or altering the temperature, or the overall size of the habitat (take Progress, for example), and the reduced gravity. I suppose I might have to settle for AR clouds and an AI randomly fluctuating the weather patterns...
To get Earthlike clouds you need a very big habitat like Extropia or Progress, and I doubt they would behave like you would like anyway. But you can get the same function as weather using careful design. Open bodies of water will start out cooler than the surrounding land when you turn on the sunlight in the morning (if it also heats up things - you might not want to do this, depending on design). This creates cool winds from the water onto land, where the air rises. On Earth this produces circulation that builds up a bit of cloud over land in the late morning. In a habitat the circulation gets complicated by low gravity and rotation, perhaps creating lateral winds in other places. In the evening the land cools quickly and the water remains warm, so the wind changes direction and now blows out from the shore.
Extropian
Rhyx Rhyx's picture
Re: Habitat Weather
In my game and my fiction I tend to go for the artificial rain idea because well, for mood rain helps so much but also more to the point it is an excellent way to water things, wash them and to disseminate things you want like nanites. As a bonus I also made it possible for wealthy people with enough pull to actually pay the station admins to make rain fall on the occasion of a funeral just to add gravitas.
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Habitat Weather
Rhyx wrote:
As a bonus I also made it possible for wealthy people with enough pull to actually pay the station admins to make rain fall on the occasion of a funeral just to add gravitas.
Good point. On Extropia the weather is of course a free market - people bid for sunshine, rain, more or less wind on the weather market, and Extropia Corporation gives the weather to the highest bidder. There are a few exceptions, mainly the annual White Christmas.
Extropian
LatwPIAT LatwPIAT's picture
Re: Habitat Weather
I remember reading somewhere an O'Neil-cylinder of the Island Two or the Island Three variety would have wind patterns much like a tornado lamp; the temperature difference between the front and back would cause air to circulate back and forth, while the steep artificial gravity gradient together with the circular movement of the habitat would cause wind at an angle to the axis of rotation. O'Neil cylinders are also supposed to have cloud-formation caused by the evaporation of internal artificial lakes/water reservoirs, which then pours down at regular intervals. The clouds would probably float with the winds, and I find it somewhat likely that it will rain more towards the rear end of the cylinder, because that end is cooler. Of course, those O'Neil-cylinders were designed to be stationed somewhere near the Earth, so the heat gradient is much higher than further out into the solar system.
@-rep +2 C-rep +1
Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture
Re: Habitat Weather
There might be annual competition for that, you know. I can imagine Diwali celebrators might want it warm and dark, after all. That said, Extropia's a beehive habitat, so you could probably just arrange for different locations to have different weather.
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Habitat Weather
Actually, the shape of Extropia is contradictory in the core book. I think the best solution we came up with in the big Extropia thread was that there is both a beehive "Old town" and the big Cole bubble where most of modern Extropia is. http://www.eclipsephase.com/building-extropia Beehive weather is probably the least interesting, since the free air circulation is pretty limited. Except that you can set up interesting air streams with fans - might be necessary if you have plantlife that needs rain.
Extropian
Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture
Re: Habitat Weather
There is a good exemple of what Extropia might be in the second Gundam UC, when Banagher Links is invited in Zeon habitat.
[center] Q U I N C E Y ^_*_^ F O R D E R [/center] Remember The Cant! [img]http://tinyurl.com/h8azy78[/img] [img]http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/tachistarfire/theeye_fanzine_us...
fafromnice fafromnice's picture
Re: Habitat Weather
when they shoot Casablanca in a big warehouse the spotlight was so hot with the wetting (the action of making the floor wet for light refraction) make rain in the warehouse it was a Zepplin warehouse so i think that in little O'neil cylinder you have cloud and rain out of control ... Ok you can spray nanites in all the space juste to control your cloud i guess for the "Casablanca's problem" they open the two extremity and put fan at one, no rain but wind on the set ... it was not better but the equipment was dry at the end

What do you mean a butterfly cause this ? How a butterfly can cause an enviromental system overload on the other side of a 10 000 egos habitat ?