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EP: Ghost in the Shell

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Andinel Andinel's picture
EP: Ghost in the Shell
I'm going to be running a game of Eclipse Phase set in the Ghost in the Shell world. I'm fine with going through the Gear chapter of the core book and cutting out anything that doesn't fit. My biggest problem is modeling the GitS-style hacking with EP rules. Does anyone have any ideas how I should model barrier mazes, attack barriers, and the like? Hacking in GitS, from what I can remember, is typically quicker than standard intrusion in EP and almost always more like brute-forcing a system, although attack barriers can damage the hacker directly if they fail to disarm them.
CodeBreaker CodeBreaker's picture
Re: EP: Ghost in the Shell
OK, so, you want to make the Hacking more like GitS. You really do not have to change all that much. First, I would consider keeping the time-scales as they are. At first glance they look long as hell, but they really are not all that bad. Any skilled hacker (i.e The Laughing Man, the Major or one of the Tachikoma) in the system can cut the time-scale of a Brute Force hack down to about 15 seconds with some ease. If they need to they can get it to 3 seconds if they are lucky. If I remember my GitS correctly they still make some use of slow hacks so the slow and steady approach is still fitting. Its just that the Hackers we see tend to be the A-Grade chaps and they never need to. Barrier Mazes are basically Firewalls are they not? Breaking through is already handled by the Intrusion rules as written. If you are going to keep Mesh Inserts to model everyone’s ability with a Cyberbrain to access the net with their brain then you can even model the Surface Maze and the Ghost Maze. The Surface Maze is the Firewall protecting your Mesh Inserts, its good but not great. Your Ghost Maze is the higher quality Firewall that is protecting your Cyberbrain and your Ghost. Attack Barriers are a bit more difficult. The game as written already has rules for damage being done through the Mesh in the form of Scorchers. The best way I would say to do them in a more GitS manner is allowing anyone to use a Scorcher on anyone who is trying to hack their brain at any time, not just allowing the hacker to use them as normal. You do the actual Attack Barriers themselves as cheap AI that deploy a Scorcher as normal. Honestly, I am fairly sure that Eclipse Phases hacking rules were written by someone taking a fair bit of inspiration from GitS. Which makes sense, as they are noted as an inspiration at the back of the book. P.S, if you want a Tachikoma morph I have a few written up using my Morph Rules.
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Andinel Andinel's picture
Re: EP: Ghost in the Shell
Thanks for the advice. Looking at the scorchers, just changing that small thing would make them perfect for an attack barrier. My next issue is one I hadn't thought of when originally coming up with the game concept: what do I do with backgrounds, factions, and rep networks? Ghost in the Shell doesn't seem nearly as balkanized in terms of people as EP is by default, so while backgrounds may still work, I'd have to rewrite an entirely new set of them for the game, and factions may have to be excluded entirely. Any suggestions as to what to do for a background & faction list? My other problem is with rep networks. GitS doesn't have nearly the same amount of information-sharing as EP does, so the concept of an open rep network doesn't quite work in the world. I was thinking of replacing it with a Shadowrun 4e-style contact list, where you can invest CP/Rez into developing connection with contacts, which would have a Connection and a Loyalty stat or something like that. Again, suggestions?
CodeBreaker CodeBreaker's picture
Re: EP: Ghost in the Shell
I agree that the Background/Faction examples given in the book do not really work as well in GitS as in EP, but I wouldn't throw them away entirely. We can keep Background, we just have to make up some new ones that are a bit more GitS'lee. A few examples could be; Full Body Cyborg Advantages – +20 to two skills of your choice. Disadvantages – Must start with either a Synthetic or a Pod morph. Common Morphs – Synth, Steel Morph, Steel Morph [Masked Variant] Unmodified Human Advantages – +10 to two skills of your choice, +1 Moxie Disadvantages – None Common Morphs – Flat, Splicers Artificial Intelligence Advantages – +30 Interfacing skill, Computer skills (Infosec, Interfacing, Programming, Research) bought with Customization Points are half price Disadvantages – Real World Naiveté trait, Social Stigma (AI) trait, Social skills bought with Customization Points are double price Common Morphs – Infomorphs, Synthetic morphs I am sure you could come up with more. Factions are something you might want to change a little. Instead of the faction they belong to you might instead want to do something like Archetype. What kind of job the person does. So you could have one for Military, or Journalist, or Hacker. Military Advantages – +10 Fray skill, +10 Kinetic Weapons skill, +20 Networking [Military] skill. Disadvantages – None Common Morphs – Flats, Splicers, Synths Journalist Advantages – +10 Investigation skill, +20 to two Networking [Field] skills Disadvantages – None Common Morphs – Flats, Splicers, Synths Hacker Advantages – +20 to two Technical skills, +10 Networking [Criminal] skill. Disadvantages – On the Run trait Common Morphs – Flats, Splicers, Synths You get the idea. Changing from Factions to Archetypes allows your players to get a clear idea of where they want their character to go right from the start, and it avoids the issue of a less balkanized world that GitS occupies. Honestly I would keep the Rep system as it is. Even in GitS who you know is often more important than what you know. If you change the different Rep factions to things like [Mil – Military] [Crim – Criminal] [Med – Media] [Corp – Corporate] you should be just fine. As long as you make it clear that the Rep systems are working in a slightly more metagamey manner you should be fine. Edit - Must. Resist. Urge to do a total conversion of EP to GitS. I have enough stuff to do already. Curse you OP, curse you!
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H_plus_plus H_plus_plus's picture
Re: EP: Ghost in the Shell
That's very cool as a start. Nice work CodeBreaker! (DO IT! CONVERT IT!) :)
Extrasolar Angel Extrasolar Angel's picture
Re: EP: Ghost in the Shell
Here is an attempt to convert Kusanagi to EP character: http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=12573576&postcount=12
[I]Raise your hands to the sky and break the chains. With transhumanism we can smash the matriarchy together.[/i]
Andinel Andinel's picture
Re: EP: Ghost in the Shell
I'm wondering what I should do with the Sanity rules. I'm thinking about cutting out Lucidity entirely, since it doesn't feel much like it belongs in a GitS game. My only idea so far is to replace it using the same formulas for ghost hacking as a sort of "ghost line" stat, and I don't like it all that much. There isn't nearly as much body-switching in GitS as there would be in a standard EP game, and people who are dead in GitS don't come back from backups, so most of the major sources of stress don't exist already.
Spoiler: Highlight to view
Not to mention the TITAN stuff and almost anything having to do with the ETI aren't even in the setting.
And the only skills that have to do with WIL are Psi skills, which don't fit in GitS. I'm looking at cutting the WIL aptitude entirely and reducing the number of aptitude points characters get by 15 (to a base of 90 starting) because of this. Any thoughts?
Rapier Rapier's picture
Re: EP: Ghost in the Shell
Well, since I also am preparing to run a Ghost in the Shell setting EP game, I thought I'd join the thread and get in on the development or start anyway :P of a full conversion. So far the only thing I disagree with here is that I'm not sure being a full body cyborg should allow you the bonuses that Codebreaker listed. In Gits most characters are going to probably be best modelled as splicers, and the main advantage of the full body cyborg background is access to synthetic morphs. I also don't think that pods would really be accessible in the setting at all. My understanding of the setting is that biological knowledge is no where near the level of EP, and that synthetic morphs and cyber limbs will be the main form of replacement. (As a result I think getting a synth morph is potentially enough of a bonus to not warrant + skills as well). To defend the above statement about Splicers. I actually think that Humans in Gits are Flats with some cyberisation (Mesh-inserts). However I think that most of the EP game isn't balanced around the vastly limiting Flat body. By that I mean, the flat body is incredibly low tech relative to for instance, the guns and gear. In contrast I think using a Splicer Body for a standard human (With some cyberisation removed, like the cortical stack). Allows you a better baseline relative to the weaker guns of Gits time-line - while still allowing the full body cyborgs and cybernetic parts to be on a noticeably better scale. Of course I think the major change hasn't been mentioned by Andinel yet - you want all your humans and ai and cyborgs to have Cyberbrains, and use the rules for them - rather than the rules for a standard biological brain. Because in the Gits Univerise all the characters with any "built in net access" are also vulnerable to hacking and even ghost hacks. I know Codebreaker has reverse engineered the morph creation (but I haven't looked into it too much yet) so I'll ask directly, do you think it's easier to take things like the Splicer Morph and modify it to have a cyberbrain and some of it's other augmentations removed? Or would it be easier to just make new morphs entirely using your forumales to represent the vast majority of humanity using cyberbrains?
And her beauty was all the more perfect and serene, preserved forever within that great glacier of ice.
Andinel Andinel's picture
Re: EP: Ghost in the Shell
I think the idea behind the Full Body Cyborg background is that you had a full body replacement for most of your life. But yeah, those bonuses do seem a little much for me. What I was thinking of doing was letting everyone pick morphs as normal (limited to Flat, Splicer, possibly Exalt, Case, Synth, Steel, Worker Pod, and maybe a few more synthmorphs), but requiring that if they picked a morph without a cyberbrain, they had to get a cyberbrain. Remember that not everyone in GitS actually has a cyberbrain - just nearly all of the characters we see. Backgrounds and Archetypes (as CodeBreaker suggested) are what's been giving me trouble now. I can't figure out what exactly to do with them.
CodeBreaker CodeBreaker's picture
Re: EP: Ghost in the Shell
The thing about EP cyberbrains and GitS cyberbrains is that the technology used is almost entirely different. GitS cyberbrains are much, much closer to Pod brains than Synthetic ones. Instead of being an artificial wetware technology base that is capable of running an Ego image they are instead biological brains that have been stuck in a container and augmented with technology. If I was going to do a total conversion of GitS I would actually write up anyone with a Cyberbrain and has undergone proper cyberisation (anyone described as a Cyborg basically) as a Pod. I wouldn't call them Pods, but that is basically what they would be from a rules point of view. BioMorphs would basically be reduced to Flats, Splicers and maybe Exalts and would be for those who are still living in the body they were born in. I haven't read the manga for a while but I do not remember many people living in Synthetic shells, so I would probably restrict those to things like the Tachikoma. However at the moment I have other things to do (Gotta rewrite my morph generation tools for the fanzine, finishing up my Battle Room thing, University work) so I don't see myself actually doing a conversion for a wee while.
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Rapier Rapier's picture
Re: EP: Ghost in the Shell
I shall give some more thought tomorrow to utilising pods rather than modifying the cyberbrain rules. I know the fluff is entirely different, but I think for modelling what happens in Ghost in the Shell the features of a cyberbrain seems like the best fit. Actually on looking at it again (quickly) its a largely mute point. I was going to design my morphs for the setting from scratch because it's easier for the most part than "best fits". The difference between Pods and biomorphs is basically the addition of a cyberbrain. So in essence you're right, you may as well make them "pods" and not use that terminology. Although I would then argue that all basic humans are pods. The Default human I've created currently (Using Codebreaker's reverse engineering, thank you) is: Implants: Basic Mesh insert, Cyberbrain (which includes access jacks, puppet sock and mnemonic augmentation) Aptitude Maximum: 25 Durability: 30 Wound Threshhold: 6 Advantages: None Disadvantages: None CP Cost: 5 Currently I'm planning to make 3 levels of Cyberbrain so any human can buy up there basic cyberbrain to level 2 for CP and gain, + 5 to an aptitude (Cog, Int, Ref), as well as access to more implants. (Like enhanced vision or ranger eyes) - but that stuff isn't worked out yet. The levels of cyberbrain would correspond to the levels of cyberisation here: http://ghostintheshell.wikia.com/wiki/Cyberbrain The level 1 cyberbrain would probably lose mnemonic augmentation. Edit: My understanding of Gits is that only the homeless in Japan lack a cyberbrain. Assuming that as the default setting I think that being a flat would be incredibly rare.
And her beauty was all the more perfect and serene, preserved forever within that great glacier of ice.
CodeBreaker CodeBreaker's picture
Re: EP: Ghost in the Shell
Rapier wrote:
Edit: My understanding of Gits is that only the homeless in Japan lack a cyberbrain. Assuming that as the default setting I think that being a flat would be incredibly rare.
Yup, basically. Even Togusa, who is noted throughout the series as being "natural" has one. I am slowly getting closer to putting some of the stuff I had had planned out of the way for a week or so, so I might have time to crack on with a GitS conversion. If you want we could start up a googledoc that we could edit as we go, share ideas that way.
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Rapier Rapier's picture
Re: EP: Ghost in the Shell
These are the current backgrounds and factions (and reputations) I've worked out. I know that the Privileged background needs a little tweaking to be more balanced (in EP it's balanced by a very limited Morph selection that I can't see being the same in GitS). Also access to synthetic morphs may be subject to changed on the Full body Cyborg, depending on ultimately the best way to model bodies like Batou and the Major. I however think that there superior durability and full cyberisation makes the synthetic morphs a good basis, currently I consider access to synthetic morphs an advantage. Also no fluff is written yet. Also, Privileged, Ordinary, Impoverished and Unmodified I see as being the 4 basic social status. I only really included unmodified for the sake of gm's wanting flats, I don't really expect someone to play them. A Flat in Japan really would be rock bottom on the social strata. _____________________________________________________ [size=20]Backgrounds:[/size] [i][size=15]AI[/size][/i] [b]Advantages:[/b] Interfacing +30, Computer skills half price, access to synthetic morphs (and possibly infomorphs?) [b]Disadvantages:[/b] Real World Naivite, social stigma(ai), social skills double, (possibly can create forks). [i][size=15]Full Body Cyborg[/size][/i] [b]Advantages:[/b] Interfacing + 10, acess to synthetic morphs [b]Disadvantages:[/b] Must take synthetic morph [i][size=15]Bioroid [/size][/i] [b]Advantages: [/b]Interfacing +30, Computer skills half price [b]Disadvantages: [/b]Must take Bioroid morph, Uncanny Valley, Social Stigma, social skills double [i][size=15]Privileged [/size][/i] [b]Advantages: [/b]Protocol +10, Networking (Fame) +10, credits increased by 10,000 [b]Disadvantages: [/b]None [i][size=15]Ordinary [/size][/i] [b]Advantages:[/b] chose technical, profession or academic +10, networking (field) +10 None [b]Disadvantages: [/b] None [i][size=15]Impoverished [/size][/i] [b]Advantages: [/b] Scourging +10, + 1 Moxie [b]Disadvantages: [/b]Half starting credits, only poor quality cybernetics [i][size=15]Unmodified Human [/size][/i] [b]Advantages: [/b]Scourging + 20, + 2 Moxie [b]Disadvantages: [/b]No starting credits. May not start with cybermetics, must be a Flat Morph. _________________________________________________________ [size=20][b]Factions [/b][/size] (these currently assume a game based in Japan - although I've tried to make them suitable for other places). [color=aqua]Edit: I realised some of these may need explanation. Reactionary is for people like the Individual Eleven or the revolutionary army. Citizen is included to model the "default" human, for when people want to play a character like a doctor, scientist, taxi driver. Annonymous is for modelling people like the "gifted children" with closed shell syndrome although it would work for any primarily internet character. The Luminary is for famous people like playing a media star or television personality. (also the Prime Minister - if you wanted to model her in the rules).[/color] [b]Military:[/b] Choose two weapons +10, fray +10, Networking (military) +10 [b]Refugee: [/b]Scourging + 10, + Choose a profession +10, Networking (underworld) +10, Networking (@-list) +10. [color=red]Social stigma (Refugee)[/color] [b]Yakuza:[/b] Intimidate + 10, Networking (underworld) +30 [color=red](Possibly on the run or some stigma [Organised Crime])[/color] [b]Citizen: [/b]choose two technical, profession or academic skills +10, choose two networks (field) + 10 [b]Reactionary:[/b] Choose a skill + 10, Network (@-list) + 30 [color=red]On the run[/color] [b]Scum:[/b] Persuasion or Deception + 10, Scourging +10, choose any skill +10, Networking (undeworld) +10 [b]Anonymous (primarily internet life):[/b] Infosec + 10, Networking (internet) +30 [b]Civil Servant: [/b]choose one profession or academic +10, Networking (Civic) +20, Networking (field) + 10 [b]Corporate Employee:[/b] Protocal + 10, choose one profession or academic + 10, Networking (Corporate) +10, Networking (field) +10 [b]Law Enforcer:[/b] Investigation + 10, choose one technical, profession or academic +10, choose a skill + 10, Networking (field) +10 [b]Luminary:[/b] Persuasion + 10, Kinesics + 10, Networking (Fame or Media) + 30 [color=red](Probably a disadvantage based on being well known).[/color] _______________________________________________ Finally these are the reputations I assumed would be present when working on the above (with some examples of what they cover) [size=20]Reputation Groups [/size] [b]Civic:[/b] Political, Government [b]Fame:[/b] Media, who's who, well known faces, wealthy, celebreity [b]@-list:[/b] Terrorists, extremists, radicals, revolutionaries [b]Corporate:[/b] The corporations. [b]Internet:[/b] Internet subcultures, internet hackers, [b]Scientific:[/b] Medical, ecological, biological, research, academic [b]Underworld: [/b]Criminal, lowlife, organised crime [b]Military:[/b] Military Contacts, weapon developers ___________________________________________________________ Edit: I would be very happy to help with a google doc on gits conversions.
And her beauty was all the more perfect and serene, preserved forever within that great glacier of ice.
Harlequin Harlequin's picture
Re: EP: Ghost in the Shell
Andinel wrote:
I think the idea behind the Full Body Cyborg background is that you had a full body replacement for most of your life. But yeah, those bonuses do seem a little much for me.
Hrm, as I understood it, having a full cyborg body for nearly all of your life is very rare. It's considered difficult and stressful, most people don't survive and those that do are special e.g. Motoko and Kuze. In general it seems to be more common in GITS that people made the swap as adults (e.g. Batou, and the crazy ex-pilot guy), during the 4th(?) World War when lots of corporations basically offered military people loads of high quality full prosthetic bodies as a method of testing out products/having a strong military force. So there should be a fair number of full prosthetics kicking around, probably with military backgrounds, but not necessarily having the Major's childhood swap experience, so I'm not sure that having the full-body cyborg background should represent a minority like the Major and Kuze. possibly the childhood swap thing would be best represented as a trait or disadvantage (?)
Harlequin Harlequin's picture
Re: EP: Ghost in the Shell
:/ guess we killed the thread? lol.
Madroxx Madroxx's picture
Re: EP: Ghost in the Shell
This does sound pretty awesome, I would love to run a game like this at some point.
marcoasalazarm marcoasalazarm's picture
Re: EP: Ghost in the Shell
Well... as a Background is still pretty useful, although as a Trait/Disadvantage is also useful. People say often throughout the SAC anime (in one or two occasions) that Motoko is oe of the beter users of cyborg bodies in the world (dunno if them mention how good she's a hacker next to, say, The Laughing Man-but anybody who sees the show just *knows* she's good)-maybe that could be something like a SOMamtics bonus (or Exceptional Aptitude (Somantics)-whichever is cheaper). On the flip side, the Major is prone to go all existentialist-talk and whatnot at the drop of a hat (or feels like it to me), and a lot of characters point out that for all of her professionalism, she's pretty damn cold, aloof and 'off' from humanity-which screams 'Mental Disorder' to me, probably something like Borderline Personality Disorder or PTSD or something equally bad.
Harlequin Harlequin's picture
Re: EP: Ghost in the Shell
@ Codebreaker - just wondering if you've managed to have a crack at backwards-engineering the synth mophs yet?