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Lost Gen. Egos

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Sat, 2010-09-25 21:23

OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture

Lost Gen. Egos

Where did they get the Ego's for the Lost Generation? I can only think of two ways and they both kinda freak me out. 1. The ego's were born with their morphs. Which has some serious implications in the setting. That would indicate that everytime you make a biomorph you're creating an ego then it get's aborted when you download some one else into the morph. 2. They took babies, uploaded them, did something with the baby morphs, and force grew new morphs for them. Note about option one. I don't really care about the abortion part and I especially don't care what anyone else thinks about the abortion part. That's not what I wan't to talk about. What freaks me out is the potential of having something like a Fury or Olympian morph with the mind of an infant sitting in diapers, slobering and playing with fisherprice toys.

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Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

Sat, 2010-09-25 21:37

CodeBreaker CodeBreaker's picture

Re: Lost Gen. Egos

On 1) Not really. An Ego is not anything special, it has no intrinsic value to it, it is simply a brain scan of an active human/octopus/AGI. As such it is likely that Morphs that are not designed to create a new consciousness are restricted in their brain development so they simply do not do so. They are a clean slab of meat, at least until the nanobots do their thing and make it other wise. I think 2) is more likely. The researchers clearly had quite a lot of ethical leeway, so it would not really go against the spirit of the project to artificially birth the brains you need in Exowombs, upload the babies brain states to specially developed InfoMorphs and just dispose of the meat. So could you potentially upload a childs' Ego into an adult sized Morph? Sure you could. But why would you want too? Changing bodies is mentally stressful enough for adults, never mind for Egos with the mental age of a two year old. (The current discussion on reproduction in Eclipse Phase is something I am really hoping they are going to deal with in the upcoming general information book they supposedly have in the works, the one that has the chapter on Uplifts. It will really clear up stuff like this)

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Sat, 2010-09-25 22:16

Demonseed Elite Demonseed Elite's picture

Re: Lost Gen. Egos

Page 233 in the EP Core book says a bit about this:

Quote:
Futura began immediately in the wake of the Fall with an initial seed population of *redacted* test subjects culled from extant genetic material and gestated to between 1 week and 6 months after birth. Of these, less than 10% were live births from either a surrogate or genetic birth mother who had perished in the Fall. The majority came from our Lunar and Martian labs and were brought to term within an exowomb. After the sample was selected, all subjects were sleeved into our fast-growth futura-brand biomorph bodies and inducted into customized simulspace learning environments.

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"It's a poor sort of memory that only works backwards." --The White Queen, [i]Through The Looking-Glass[/i] [img]https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_zGgz13n3uzE/TWWPdvGig-I/AAAAAAAACI8/y...

Sat, 2010-09-25 23:52

OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture

Re: Lost Gen. Egos

thanks for the quote. Don't know how I missed that. so the only point of the progect was to skip the 1st 18 years of resources a normal child would require. How odd.

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Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

Sun, 2010-09-26 08:33

Demonseed Elite Demonseed Elite's picture

Re: Lost Gen. Egos

OneTrikPony wrote:
so the only point of the progect was to skip the 1st 18 years of resources a normal child would require. How odd.

Basically. It started out one of those pie-in-the-sky research projects asking whether human development could be fast-tracked using fast-growth clone morphs and simulspace development environments. But with the Fall, suddenly there was a sociological desire among some to repopulate the species and this experiment was given a push into production. Of course, the introduction of Watts-McLeod to the Lost subjects may not have been accidental. So it's very possible that someone involved in the project had some other agenda.

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"It's a poor sort of memory that only works backwards." --The White Queen, [i]Through The Looking-Glass[/i] [img]https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_zGgz13n3uzE/TWWPdvGig-I/AAAAAAAACI8/y...

Sun, 2010-09-26 09:26

OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture

Re: Lost Gen. Egos

Thanks for the answers. One followup question: How old are the lost in objective time? I put them at 7 years old AF:10

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Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

Sun, 2010-09-26 09:42

Demonseed Elite Demonseed Elite's picture

Re: Lost Gen. Egos

The same entry on page 233 gives some clues, but it doesn't outright say when the Futura Program began. The report on page 233 is dated 8 AF and the report says it is being released five years after the Futura Program became a public scandal, so that must have happened in 3 AF. Since the project goal was to fit 18 years of subjective development into 3 years of objective time and the scandal broke at the 34-month mark of the project, I'm guessing the Futura Program was kicked off nearly immediately after the Fall. So the Lost Generation would be roughly ten years old, objective time, in 10 AF.

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"It's a poor sort of memory that only works backwards." --The White Queen, [i]Through The Looking-Glass[/i] [img]https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_zGgz13n3uzE/TWWPdvGig-I/AAAAAAAACI8/y...

Sun, 2010-09-26 09:53

babayaga

Re: Lost Gen. Egos

OneTrikPony wrote:
Thanks for the answers. One followup question: How old are the lost in objective time? I put them at 7 years old AF:10

They are actually about 10. Look at the report on p.233 of the corebook. It's dated 2nd quarter of 8AF. The report claims to have been written "5 years after whistleblowers and intense media attention forced [Psiclone] to end the project and release the remaining subjects". This event took then took place around 3AF, apparently happened 34 months (see end of the report) after the beginning of the project, which then started no more than a few months after the fall. This matches the fact that the children egos where between 1 week and 6 months old, and some of them were orphans of mothers having perished during the Fall. EDIT: Agh, Demonseed beat me by 10 minutes!

Sun, 2010-09-26 20:06

Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture

Re: Lost Gen. Egos

they're about chronologically 10 years old (for the oldest, I believe the operation went on for three years before the plug was pulled), but they're physically and somewhat mentally in their early twenties. if you want an exemple, read Old Man's War and its sequel, Ghost Squad for a great exemple of a Lost Gen. Another possible source, to get more batch, is officially deceased people BEFORE the Fall who weren't supposed to be resleeved, got pruned by psychosurgery and resleeved in Futuras. Could be criminals, religious type who saw uploading as death and resleeving as blasphemy, etc

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Tue, 2010-09-28 10:01

#10

Prime Mover Prime Mover's picture

Re: Lost Gen. Egos

A question thats come up for us recently is how common is the Futura morph? Is it something that is still produced or is the Lost stuck with the one he starts with. Paranoia and misunderstanding involving asyncs and the Futura morph would seem to be a focal point for that unfounded fear and social exclusion. Example: In our recent game the team ego-casts to mars and our lost requests a Futura morph. Which I allowed as they were casting to a large resleeving center. I made sure the tech game him the stink eye though and gave him a wide berth after he became conscious. Would the choice of morph be reported to local authorities?

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"The difference between truth and fiction, people expect fiction to make sense."

Tue, 2010-09-28 10:30

#11

CodeBreaker CodeBreaker's picture

Re: Lost Gen. Egos

The Canon suggests that it is a collectors item, most being either in the hands of the remaining Lost or in the private collections of wealthy individuals. Not the kind of thing you are likely to be able to get at most instituations. Remember that while everyone knows that the Lost generation went wrong, most people are not aware *why*. Asyncs are still not well known about, most people either believe they don't exist at all or believe in the same way people think about ghosts at the present. For all most people know it might of been the Futura morphs themselves that made the Lost go crazy. That and they are a constant reminder of one of Transhumanities most embarrasing experiments since the Fall. When the project was revealed to the public there was a massive uproar about it, not something that most people want to be reminded of. Also, the Lost still have a fairly potent social stigma about them. Being assossiated with the Futura project in anyway is probably enough to bring on the ire of the public.

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Tue, 2010-09-28 13:42

#12

King Shere King Shere's picture

Re: Lost Gen. Egos

And they are not only regarded as "mere" crazy, they are regarded as dangerous. So Crazies are more acceptable & sympathetic to the public the than the Lost. Talk about bad rep & the Lost would be one of the text book examples.

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