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Fixing QE to preserve causality AND faster-than-light communication

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babayaga babayaga's picture
Fixing QE to preserve causality AND faster-than-light communication
I've not thought too much about it, but it seems to me, on a cursory analysis, that not *all* FTL communication breaks causality. If one is only dealing with relative velocities that are substantially subrelativistic (and similarly "tame" masses etc.) it seems that one could have "sufficiently slow" FTL, albeit non-instantaneous, communications that still preserve causality. In particular, in a world where the maximum relative velocity of any pair of quantum farcasters is v_max < < c, having QE communication at a speed no larger than something of the order of 2c^2/v_max^2 (which is still much larger than c) should be unable to violate causality. If that were the case, we could slightly fix the physics of EP QE communications (e.g. saying that large inertial shifts slightly "distort" the entanglement slowing down communication between the two qbits) in such a way that: 1) they do not allow time travel, satisfying the physics geeks among us, but 2) they are still in practice "instantaneous" for all practical *game* purposes. Consider this. If you move your qbits using any ship slower than 300Km/s (that's several times faster than what you can get using mainly gravity assists, and it does allow you to reach the outer edge of the Kuiper belt in about a year), you can have communication between any two naturally orbiting bodies at the opposite outer edges of the Kuiper belt with a round-trip delay of about a tenth of a second - that's better than what you get from most telephone calls today. Use fast couriers running at top speed, and this degrades to about a dozen seconds (which is not *much* worse than what I've occasionally experienced with skype...), or again a fraction of a second within the inner system. Pandora gates probably ruin your QE, but I do not see that as particularly problematic *in*game*terms*. Of course, if you throw Pandora gates into the mix, causality starts to face serious trouble (from the wormhole, rather than the QE) but not necessarily unfixable (see e.g. http://www.aleph.se/Trans/Tech/Space-Time/wormholes.html) - and in any case, if you are talking about Pandora gates, you are handwaving so much that a little more shouldn't hurt.
icekatze icekatze's picture
Re: Fixing QE to preserve causality AND faster-than-light ...
hi hi So basically the greater the difference in velocity, the slower the FTL communication travels? That is a good elegant solution for peer to peer communications, but it needs to factor in an element of proximity to other frames of reference in order to prevent someone from relaying the transmission via conventional means to a pair of communicators moving at a different velocity. So a nearby fast moving object would slow the communication just as well as if the sender was moving fast herself.
babayaga babayaga's picture
Re: Fixing QE to preserve causality AND faster-than-light ...
icekatze wrote:
hi hi So basically the greater the difference in velocity, the slower the FTL communication travels?
Not exactly. I am not talking about the difference of velocity between the two points of a single QE link. I am talking about difference of velocity between *any* pair of points in a communication network involving QE links. I'll try and clarify this in the next post.
babayaga babayaga's picture
Re: Fixing QE to preserve causality AND faster-than-light ...
I've thought a little more about it, and this seems to work nicely. Summarizing: QE communication can be faster than light - indeed, theoretically arbitrarily close to istantaneous. The fundamental limitation, however, comes into play when QE communication is combined with large inertial shifts. [b]Any system involving multiple QE receivers/transmitters at speed v>0 from each other deteriorates the entanglement and the speed of QE communication. If v< < c, the communication speed can still be significantly faster than light - by a factor that is to a first approximation equals 2(c/v)^2[/b]. [i]This holds even if each QE link is between points with the same velocity, as long as information has to pass through multiple links and the extremities of different links are at a relative speed greater than 0.[/i] What does this imply in practice? In terms of time travel, it should make it impossible (barring wormholes and such). The classic example of time travel with A and B sharing an inertial frame and an ansible, and C and D (colocated respectively with B and A) also sharing a (different) inertial frame and an ansible, doesn't work. Even if the QE ansibles are between pairs of points in the same inertial frame, information coming from the first QE channel, must have changed its frame of reference to enter the second QE channel, and so it slows down. In some sense, when information comes out of a QE link, even when made "classical", it carries a "memory" of having traveled through the QE link that will interfere with any other QE link it is shoved into, at least for some time (the longer the links and the larger the inertial difference, the longer the memory). In terms of the EP universe, it changes almost nothing if we handwave the issues involving Pandora gates (which involve a lot of handwaving anyways). As long as you do not bring quantum farcasters on board of anything faster than 300Km/s, you can have QE communications between any pair of points from the Vulcanoids to outer edge of the Kuiper belt with a round-trip delay of a fraction of a second - comparable to that in today's phone talks. Note that virtually any habitat orbiting the Sun or a lesser body in the system has speeds of 100Km/s less; which means that anything traveling with substantial gravitational assists will also have speeds in approximately that range (e.g. the Earth/Mars shuttle travels with a peak speed of a few dozen Km/s). With fast couriers reaching half percent the speed of light (1500Km/s) things get a little trickier, meaning delays of up to a dozen seconds between points within the Kuiper belt. This involves not only communication *between* couriers, but any communication that is mediated by a long range QE link on a courier. This means that couriers traveling at top speed try to avoid using long range QE communications or risk temporary disruption of information in any communication network they are involved in (or, more accurately, delays of up to a dozen seconds). Note that at ranges that are not system-spanning, even for couriers these delays can be quite small (we are talking of 50 milliseconds round-trip delay between points at the same distance the Earth is from the Sun, 1 AU).
root root's picture
Re: Fixing QE to preserve causality AND faster-than-light ...
root@Fixing QE to preserve causality AND faster-than-light communication [hr] This one has an easy solution from my point of view. The first step it to grant the arrow of time the status of having it's own dimension, and therefore it's own string. What q-bit communications do is wait for 2πT[sup]11[/sup] seconds, where T is the total length of time in the universe in seconds. When the entangled q-bit is racing up on itself again, it already knows how the flip will turn out, so it can "instantaneously" choose which way it needs to flip.
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root root's picture
Re: Fixing QE to preserve causality AND faster-than-light ...
root@Fixing QE to preserve causality AND faster-than-light communication [hr]
root wrote:
2πT[sup]11[/sup] seconds, where T is the total length of time in the universe in seconds.
"This means absolutely nothing, in case anyone was wondering."
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