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can you tone this back without breaking it?

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briansommers briansommers's picture
can you tone this back without breaking it?
As a newbie thinking of really getting into this game, I'm having a hard time with some of the most far out concepts.. could a person dial it back a little and not break it? How flexible is this game? also, what do you really do in a nutshell? Are you saving humanity? Are there any pure 100% humans left? or are you just trying to stop the robots from taking over?
ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
Jovian repubilc is almost
Jovian repubilc is almost exclusively flats. the setting is pretty flexible on what you want to include and disclose. a recommendation to help wit hthe culture shock of the game more or less to check out the reference section. I'd suggest the fictions instead of the hard science and psychology books.
NotActuallyTim NotActuallyTim's picture
Would you mind telling
Would you mind telling everyone which concepts you're having trouble with? And, yes, you can tone it back. The mechanics can be used without the setting, as long as you ignore the names and descriptions in the character creation section.
MAD Crab MAD Crab's picture
If you don't like thinking
If you don't like thinking about whether technology will go so far that we stop being 'human' and end up as something greater or even worse, I'm not sure this is the game you want to play. As to what the game is actually about: If you play in the default manner, as Firewall agents the answer is yes, you are trying to save humanity. Well, Transhumanity. All the weird offshoots of our family tree, which most definitely includes 'robots.' They're trying to save it from the mad AIs everybody knows about, the TITANS. From little known alien threats and alien technology. And a lot of the time, from itself. If every human has access to machines that can make weapons of mass destruction, there's going to be a bit of a learning curve in the "not destroying each other" department. The only thing I ever really tone down myself is the 'yay anarchy good' slant that the books push.
MrWigggles MrWigggles's picture
Part of what I love Eclipse
Part of what I love Eclipse Phase, is its flexibility. You run Noires (Blade Runners though not explicitly stated must totally exist in EP. Especially for the Jovians.), you can run westerns, you can run merchants, you can run indian jones adventures, you can run hard sci high concept, you can run gritty sci fi, you can run Event Horizon, or Short Circuit or Ex Machina. What do you do in a nut shell? Well if you run it from the books default, then you're Agents of Firewall, a conspiracy, an illegal organization working for Transhumanity safety, continuance. This is ten years after the near genocide of Transhumanty from alien super intelegence group known as the TITANs. Transhumanty did not win. TITANs left. Why? The fuck if anyone knows. And they didnt pack a lot of stuff up. They left a lot of very dangerous 'genocide in a box' all over SOL. Firewall, contains, destroyers and sometime studies these 'genocide in a box'. And Firewall can do this like a Scalpel, or sometimes, just with more fire. Killing a hab of a hundred, to save whats left. The Exsurigent Virus, in all its forms seems to be sapient, seems to desire malice, and seems to be malevolent. It can transition from organic to software. It may not be evil. It may be operating on some alien ethics that we cant understand. You can run this with guns a blazing, you can run this as a spy game, you can this as a heist game. Generally groups do a mix. Are there normal humans? I assume like us today? No, not really. They're about. But they're a minority. Majority of the minority live in the Jovian Republic. Everyone else is de facto immortal, everyone else can have their mind digitizes like any computer file. The person, the persona, is no longer also defined by the body. The mind can be in the body it wants to be. In a lot of cases, its in the body it can afford. The internet is integrated into everyone body. Its nearly 'thought tect'. Your Muse, the personification of your exocortex, has been with you for nearly your entire life. Its your laptop, your smart phone, your personal assistant and confident, is your gateway to the Internet.
DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
Many of the concepts in
Many of the concepts in Eclipse Phase can be hard to grasp at first. Eclipse Phase pushes transhuman concepts further than most RPGs. I think of that as a selling point. Many RPGs I've read have rules that puts limits on what you can do (some for "balance" reasons), and many have a powerful authority that can force people to limit how far transhuman they go. The default kind of campaign is to protect transhumanity as members of Firewall. However, the setting is flexible enough that you do just about anything else. A warning, most of the books talk from the perspective of you being a Firewall agent. If you don't go the Firewall route, you're going to have to rethink what kinds of information the players should have. They probably don't have a secret organization feeding them information. You can certainly tone back on a lot of the transhuman stuff. Without some idea of what you want to change, I can't paint you a picture. Eclipse Phase exists in a world where many things have crossed paths. Where dangerous weapons have destroyed most authority figures that could enforce control over most of transhumanity and where technology is powerful enough to allow people to do things that give them an unfair advantage over others.
briansommers briansommers's picture
Good to know.
Good to know. Nothing specific, I ordered the book from Amazon and will be here tomorrow, just in time for the weekend! I've battled with this vs Mongoose Traveller v2 and I went with this, thinking that it would be more ripe for stories with grit. Now I feel I maybe in over my head. I do like working for Firewall concept, bringing the characters together for a reason and common mission. One thing that hung me up a bit, was from what I read on some forum about EP.. Something about you don't have space travel in spaceships doing FTL but you just cast your mind to other planets? What the crap!! - Oy, that is hard to wrap that concept around my head. I do think I might miss FTL space travel, but.... I'll give this a try for sure. The setting does appeal to me. The thing that made me get this over MGTv2 was the idea of running around trading cargo in a spaceship. I mean how many things can go wrong before it's just becomes rinse and repeat? This game seems to have a HUGE world to explore. I'll be plaything this with Mythic GM emulator and keeping extensive notes. I hope one day to turn it into several short stories.
NotActuallyTim NotActuallyTim's picture
Oh, you mean egocasting.
Oh, you mean egocasting. Yeah, that's part of resleeving. You might want to read the book about it before anyone here tries to explain. The book will probably do a better job.
ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
ok on the subject of travel:
ok on the subject of travel: Transhumanity mostly uses fusion torch or orion type drives. We can not even approach the lightspeed barrier. The formers have an intertialess drive that know one ine setting knows how it works dominant interplanetary travel method is to upload or mind into a data from it and transmit it to the destination. These transmissions are at the speed of light. the only Known method of FTL travel are the pandora gates. Presumably the titans built these, and they are very very dangerous and we have no idea how they work. these are connected into some sort of galactic network
Urthdigger Urthdigger's picture
If you REALLY want space
If you REALLY want space travel, that is a thing that happens. People can egocast their conciousness and resleeve at the destination, but moving raw materials is a thing that happens. There's also scum barges that travel the solar system. Just... you do have to realize that travel is SLOOOOOOOW. Either you need stuff to go on during this time (aforementioned barges are good for this, they're moving cities basically.) or you do some sort of hibernation and try not to worry about how much older everyone you just left behind got. I mean, they won't die, people don't die of old age anymore, but still. Lot of time lost. Can be a culture shock if/when you return.
MrWigggles MrWigggles's picture
If you really want spaceships
If you really want spaceships, doing space travel, then what I have done, is set the game in the Belt. The Belt is close enough with lots of little habs and big habs, that you can travel to different "planets" without it takes months and years. Part of Eclipse Phase, is that its a pretty firm Sci Fi setting. Probably the most approachable Hard Sci fi rpg there is right now. It doesnt require you to do calculus. There is some none sense. Like QE Comms, are able to send information faster then C. Pandora Gates. The Exsurigent virus. But yea. The mind has been digitized. Its a computer file. It can be edited like any computer file. So you can learn new skills, forget skills, and have your memories edited. Or be sent to a hab like Email. And like any computer file, it can be copied and you can have two or more of you running around. Sometime folks do this on purpose, other times, its not. Often time, folks will copy themselves, sent that to have a Hab for a meeting or consultation, that copy comes back then they merge the difference or just exchange the information orally then delete the copy.
jackgraham jackgraham's picture
Before linking up with
Before linking up with Posthuman, I ran a game for a few years that evolved out of Traveller into something very like a proto-EP. Main differences were playable/relatable aliens, interstellar travel, and only very limited (mostly plot device-level) uploading/bodyhopping. One iteration of the game had sublight (like .1-.3c) starships; later, serious FTL showed up. So it's possible to reverse EP in this direction if you're up for a little work on ships stats/combat. Sounds like you're a writer, so why not give it a crack? Or you can just do like EP and treat ships largely as locations if your main point is for the PCs to be able to travel. Aliens, you can just treat as another morph. For humans, pick a few morph types to represent human sub-species, and just ignore all the stuff about cortical stacks, backups, egocasting, etc. Consider making combat less lethal in this case if your team isn't up for dying in gunfights like a bunch of hapless 1920s CoC investigators. Someone posted a hack for Mass Effect-style personal shields in the homebrew forums several years back. Or you can make armor better and take away some of the conditions that punch through it (like crits). This also makes life easier for players who want to make melee ninjas. If you want hard SF interstellar travel, my recommended inspiration is Vinge's _Deepness in the Sky_ or Reynolds' _Revelation Space_ trilogy. Probably people spend much of an interstellar journey in hibernation. (Also a thing in _Aliens_, although they gloss over all the stuff the ships would need to be able to do for such a long journey.) To simplify AI, one option is to leave AGIs out of the game and just have non-sentient AIs. (Which fits with leaving out resleeving, because in EP, the development of fully self-aware AGIs was linked to the invention of mind uploading). Hope that helps!
J A C K   G R A H A M :: Hooray for Earth!   http://eclipsephase.com :: twitter @jackgraham @faketsr :: Google+Jack Graham
jackgraham jackgraham's picture
Also, I'd be curious on
Also, I'd be curious on people's thoughts about how to simplify nanotech from a conceptual standpoint. The more useful technology to players is nanofabrication, but it's also the more complex of the two. Nanoswarms are simpler (they're just statted like monsters) and more fun/cinematic in many ways. So they're simpler to leave in, but also the less plausible of the two technological applications. Finally, rep... One option is to replace it with something more like Shaowrun's Contacts system. Then you don't have to explain the whole concept of rep networks, scores, etc... Instead, the characters just know somebody, and maybe that somebody knows somebody else on whatever planet they're headed to, if you don't want to be tied down to one place.
J A C K   G R A H A M :: Hooray for Earth!   http://eclipsephase.com :: twitter @jackgraham @faketsr :: Google+Jack Graham
UnitOmega UnitOmega's picture
Honestly, I personally never
Honestly, I personally never had a big problem wrapping my head around Egocasting. Maybe it's because I was already familiar with some cyberpunk mediums and if you can buy the settings initial conceits (which are all in the tagline), like that your mind is just the appropriately arranged sequence of information the idea of just FTP your mind to the next planet over rather than taking the realistic time to fly there was pretty easy. But who knows, maybe the fact that I've always treated EP as basically the "future" of cyberpunk style stories, with elements of classic traditional science fiction in there, rather than a straight up big future-y or space-y setting. Even if those stories are further back up the timeline or tech level, they definitely put one in kind of the right frame of reference I think. Not every sci-fi story will get up in those weird existential questions about being human, the barrier between mental, physical and digital and, if you're real with or without continuity or if parts of you are synthetic, etc. That said, I don't know if it's just good research or more opportune timing, but EP has some very opportune introduction with some concepts which now most people who are consumers should be familiar with, especially if they're nerdy enough to run an RPG. Nanofabrication is very easy to relate to 3D printing - just it can "print" with virtually any material down at the molecular level so it can print basically anything. Even if they don't use them people should be familiar with Social Networks and conceptually reputation shouldn't be hard to follow from there. Drones are a commercial product now, lots of stuff is bluetooth or wi-fi enabled, automation of things grows prominent like with stories of self-driving cars... Basically, a lot of the tech in EP shouldn't look to alien to anybody, and the stuff that does is kind of part of the up-front pitch of the game, you're unlikely to try and keep reading if you aren't at least curious about the game's upfront about stuff like your body being a shell and mind being software - which I do think it hopefully gets across pretty plainly. That said, the beauty of the game is that it's often written subjectively and with vague (and sometimes outright contradictory) wording - or is written to contain multiple truths. You can play around with a lot of things which are even a "Fact" of the setting, without getting into stuff like multiple choices of plot, utilizing certain sidebars of information which might not be intrinsically true, and can pick how you use certain facts and words to apply a game which is more your shape. People who can't or don't want to handle some stuff strip it out or reduce it down, some people think the game doesn't go far enough so they'll boost stuff up. Homebrew has worked much more unusual and even "rule-breaking" stuff in before.
H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog http://ephrep.blogspot.com/
Kojak Kojak's picture
Honestly, I highly recommend
Honestly, I highly recommend that the OP check out the Takeshi Kovacs series by Richard K. Morgan: there's a ton of core concept stuff that is clearly lifted straight from those books, and Altered Carbon in particular really helped me wrap my head around this stuff when I was teaching myself the setting a few years ago.
"I wonder if in some weird Freudian way, Kojak was sucking on his own head." - Steve Webster on Kojak's lollipop
ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
Associative thinking is useful.
Two things I find help comprehension? MMORPGS and Fantasy RPGs. EP has a lot of foibles and elements that make it unique so these things don't fit perfectly, but they're great for getting the hang of things. The first because they're an environment where a lot of the stuff present in EP is actively present - when you die you 'respawn' somewhere safe, travel works through both 'physical' motion and through defacto-teleportation (particularly SWTOR: travel to different worlds occurs via menu, not through spaceflight) or server-swapping, your reputation and wealth are measurable status bars, most physical items can be created In-Situ without raw materials, save those which are rare and powerful... it goes on and on. Fantasy games are handy for working through technological capabilities or gameplay mechanics - Infomorphs are ghosts/poltergeists, nanoswarms are persistent AOE magic 'fields' or slow acting spells, Infosec is the Lockpicking skill, ect. The only thing that doesn't really have an equivalent and I haven't found a way to simplify is Forking.
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
MrWigggles MrWigggles's picture
Doppelgangers.
Doppelgangers.
ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
...Really?
Sooo... Horrible telepathic monsters than steal your form and thoughts in order to betray your friends and family? Yeah, that'll go over Great. [size=9]... I don't get why being in multiple places and being multiple people at once is so hard to grasp...[/size]
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
Noble Pigeon Noble Pigeon's picture
I've had this problem about
I've had this problem about the game for a long time. I still have some problems with it. One thing that helps are the liberal use of skeumorphs. If you don't know that that is: a skeumorph in science fiction is usually something usually obsolete that is used to bring familiarity to new things. It helps people have more familiarity to the fiction they're being wrapped in. Like the save icon for some programs being a floppy disk, for example. Printed books are still a thing, because reasons. Physical buttons and computer screens still exist despite the fact that most people have smart phones in their brain, because reasons. (Good reasons I'd imagine: why forsake physical interface controls that don't rely on wireless signals to function?) I've always been a much bigger fan of the aesthetic of Dead Space or Alien rather than the squeaky clean, "everything is an iPod" feel of Star Trek, so that's partly another reason why I do that. Also, spaceship travel is more common in my version of EP, far more than egocasting. This is for the simple reason that I like spaceships as a ubiquitous sci-fi trope, way more than just faxing your mind across space. Egocasting's a cool concept don't get me wrong, but it's just not as used for various reasons. You could say I run a version of EP that is more bioconservative but I don't think that's the case. As I've said before on here, I think the books need to have more of everyday, down-to-earth viewpoints of your average Joe or Jane. A lot of viewpoints are from Firewall agents that regularly partake in high stakes, high risk espionage and missions where the survival of thousands or millions rests on their actions, where enemies are around every corner, where morphs are seen as equipment. But does your average transhuman view morphs as merely equipment, or as something like a car, or clothes? I would say no. Dying still sucks. Resleeving is never taken lightly or done casually, unless you're someone who can afford to do so or has to do so for whatever reason. If your average transhuman's stats are anywhere from 10-15, and assuming they don't have a lot of bonuses to their Integration and Alienation tests, they can rack up SV and suffer some nasty modifiers to their actions pretty easily. And since you have to do integration/alienation tests every time you egocast, it's not something that's done regularly. People here have cited Altered Carbon for reading on EP, and I also recommend it 100%. It's important to note that your average person in Altered Carbon likes sticking with a specific morph with specific looks. For example, when a person in the books is resleeved into a body that looks different from her original, it's not something she passes off lightly. It's not just "equipment" or "like a car", it's her *body* that she lost, and it's being used by someone that isn't her. This fact is stressful at best, both for her and her family. The main character has a much more adaptable mind and is specifically trained to be able to quickly adopt to new bodies, but for most people in that book it's not the case. Also, while your mind is software, it's not changed or edited liberally. Skillware augmentations aren't cheap and can only get you so skilled in something. Psychosurgery is not a flawless process, and not everyone likes people mucking about with their ego, even if it's for beneficial purposes. Forking is still very controversial and using alpha forks are frowned upon at best, even in more liberal polities. Note that I'm only still talking about your average person. I'm aware that there's going to be folks whose identity isn't tied to a specific morph or its looks and doesn't mind egocasting everywhere and body hopping at every chance they get,whether it be a robot centaur (whoever thought of that morph, by the way, deserves a goddamn pat on the back) or a sun whale. They might have no problems with regular forking or psychosurgery. Examples: Oversight/Firewall agents, people whose jobs require them to regularly use these technologies (cough takeshi kovacs cough), etc. And since the books often take the view of Firewall agents... Basically, I think it's fair to say that "normal" humans still exist in the setting outside the Jovian Republic/Luna/etc., and the majority of them are in regular splicer morphs, who physically speaking wouldn't be out of place from 21st century Earth, for the most part. Cultural mores have changed, new ideologies have sprung up, and people have the ability to inhabit a body they want to be in. But they're still recognizable as human beans. Uplifts and AGIs might have characteristics or mindsets that mark them as distinctly non-human, but both aren't aliens. You want those, look at the Factors. YMMV, of course. Again this is just how I run it. Which is ironic considering my current character in a game is an AGI who is the lead singer of a Titanian rock band all sleeved in robo-centaurs. And yes, I stole that idea from the Morph Recognition Guide, it was too metal not to! /incoherent rant
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.” -Abraham Lincoln, State of the Union address
Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture
I don't think most of that is
I don't think most of that is really a setting change. Egocasting definitely is, but passenger ships are still fairly common, even if interplanetary travel is majority egocasting by default. Most people don't take interplanetary trips often though, so many people won't egocast for that reason. I think the group which most often egocasts is probably the anarchists. They're strung out across a huge volume of space, and tend to move between habs a lot. Ectos are weird bendy and stretchy phones you can wear as a bracelet, but they do have screens and buttons. I don't really think they fit into either a star trek or dead space like aesthetic, but they definitely aren't virtual. Egocasting and resleeving is probably most comparable to getting less invasive surgery done. It's disorienting and afterwards people need a fair amount of recuperation. For egocasting add on getting used to living in a new country while recovering from surgery. That'll get the numbers of people doing it down. For something which isn't time sensitive spending a week or three on a passenger ship adjusting to the new gravity will be a lot more pleasant then walking out of a clinic with feet that feel several sizes wrong. With that in mind I suspect that the majority of egocasting (and interplanetary travel by trip numbers) is stuff like rapid business trips Firewall style stuff, and avant-gard travel. Most people stay in their local "neighborhood" and don't travel beyond it often. There's a small minority who travel a lot, and they mostly egocast. I figure this is likely to be the case because if people were commonly traveling around the "cultural islands" that EP talks about forming likely would not have. I don't think the comparison as a car makes sense beyond relative prices for getting a new body, resleeving isn't something done as lightly as trading up to the new model of car.
Quote:
Basically, I think it's fair to say that "normal" humans still exist in the setting outside the Jovian Republic/Luna/etc., and the majority of them are in regular splicer morphs, who physically speaking wouldn't be out of place from 21st century Earth, for the most part.
This is *probably* true. The books have both said that the majority of people are sleeved in cheap robots, and that Splicers are the most common morph. It's kind of confusing, but overall I get the impression that the majority is meant to be in Splicers. Most people are at least going to be human shaped for sure. There aren't a lot of games with the kind of resleeving and morphological freedom that EP allows, so I think people latch onto it especially hard. Most of the weird stuff is fairly rare though. It's fun to think of parties with stuff like Swarmanoids, Hab Brains and Suryas, but they're extremely different from what most people use. Of course, there's still a lot of weird stuff, but this helps to highlight in setting. Personally I keep most of the setting pretty human shaped when running the game. The exceptions are Anarchists and Sifters (excluding Solarians of course). I think it helps to differentiate anarchists from the other factions to make them the least human shaped one.
Noble Pigeon Noble Pigeon's picture
I believe the comment in the
I believe the comment in the book of "the majority of transhumanity being sleeved in cases" was a throwaway line from some Firewall sentinel trying to be poetic. I don't recall where it was said, though. According to the Morph Recognition Guide, "splicers make up the majority of transhumanity".
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.” -Abraham Lincoln, State of the Union address
Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture
It's from a red page in
It's from a red page in Transhuman, but I don't recall the actual number off the top of my head. Nevertheless, it's stated several times that the majority of transhumanity is in Splicers or near splicers.
SquireNed SquireNed's picture
One thing to consider is that
One thing to consider is that the likelihood that a faction discourages/encourages resleeving is a measure of how old-school they are. The Jovians are very old-school. You can't really resleeve, but if you do you're going to a very baseline morph. The Ultimates, on the other hand, make their own morph and to really join them you're going to need to use one as well (or have a good reason for why your current morph is better than a Remade).