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Ambidextrous Trait Clarification

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Thu, 2015-04-23 03:30
#1
Kojak Kojak's picture
Ambidextrous Trait Clarification
If you're creating an uplifted octopus ego, and you want to apply Ambidextrous to all eight limbs, is the first tentacle "free"? In other words, is it 70 or 80 CP to apply it to all eight?
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"I wonder if in some weird Freudian way, Kojak was sucking on his own head." - Steve Webster on Kojak's lollipop
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Thu, 2015-04-23 03:42
UnitOmega UnitOmega's picture
70. You need it for each
70. You need it for each additional limb, as the game assumes you have a dominant limb normally (maybe regular octopi don't, but, y'know, let's not hand out free Ambidex).
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Thu, 2015-04-23 06:16
Pyrite Pyrite's picture
Generally you're going to
Generally you're going to need at least a few limbs to stand on/grip with, in order to give you the leverage to swing properly. Using all eight limbs in a single attack should leave you flying through the air and either prone or completely open at the end of it. Four or five limbs you can probably get away with, though.
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Thu, 2015-04-23 07:06
Kojak Kojak's picture
I agree, although I can think
I agree, although I can think of situations where you might intentionally be prone: for example, if you're camped behind cover or in an overwatch position. In situations like that, being able to use four two-handed weapons without penalty can be absolutely devastating.
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"I wonder if in some weird Freudian way, Kojak was sucking on his own head." - Steve Webster on Kojak's lollipop
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Thu, 2015-04-23 07:39
FrivolousVector FrivolousVector's picture
Polywielding!
Alternatively, take Gecko Grip and attach it to your mantle. That way you're hands free and hanging from your head! Alternatively, drop a little extra credit on a mobility frame and say it gives you an extra set of legs (this has the extra bonus of giving you actual legs). Also, recognize that the Octo has one major advantage over lesser-armed (heh) individuals: Most characters can only dual wield single-handed weapons. The Octo can do that with 2-handers. For example, the Firewall Router (p189 Firewall) has Ambi x3 so they can wield both particle beam bolters and their laser pulser simultaneously.
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Thu, 2015-04-23 08:50
ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
If you're really trying to
If you're really trying to cheese the multiple-melee-weapons rule, you don't actually need Ambidexterity [b]at all[/b], because you only make an attack roll with one weapon when making a melee attack. You [i]also[/i] only need one weapon you're good with. Your Thermonuclear Tentacle Octopus only needs to invest in blades and one (1) [s]Monofilament[/s]Plasma Sword, and seven (7) knives, clubs, or wielded rocks. This is because when wielding two or more melee weapons, you only "attack" with one of them; every other wielded melee weapon, regardless of its provenance, your skill with it, or whether you are ambidextrous with the limb you are wielding it with, adds +1d10 to the DV of the main weapon, and that's it. So an octopus with one [s]monofilament[/s]Plasma Sword, a knife, a pipe, a paperweight, a truncheon, a club, a hacksaw, and a cricket bat, going to town on someone, will be dealing 9d10+8 DV, AP-8. Or 10d10+8, AP -8, if you get the mollusk beak in there, too.
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Thu, 2015-04-23 10:18
jKaiser jKaiser's picture
This might not matter for
This might not matter for crunch, but how does ambidexterity/arm preference work at all with semi-autonomous arms as octopodes have? One or two just behaves a little quicker?
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Thu, 2015-04-23 12:11
FrivolousVector FrivolousVector's picture
The heirarchy of angels
That's not something that has a systemic weight, so we try not to think about it.
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Thu, 2015-04-23 12:21
Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture
Its worth noting that it isn
Its worth noting that it isn't possible to get more than 6 limbs ambidextrous'd due to the 50 CP limit on positive traits. I think leaving two in reserve (and/or adding a cyberlimb or two) for balance works pretty well.
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Thu, 2015-04-23 12:45
UnitOmega UnitOmega's picture
I'm not sure there's a hard
I'm not sure there's a hard and fast rule that says you can't buy more traits later with RP. EXP progression in this game is slow as hell, but it exists.
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Thu, 2015-04-23 12:52
SquireNed SquireNed's picture
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:If you
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
If you're really trying to cheese the multiple-melee-weapons rule, you don't actually need Ambidexterity [b]at all[/b], because you only make an attack roll with one weapon when making a melee attack. You [i]also[/i] only need one weapon you're good with. Your Thermonuclear Tentacle Octopus only needs to invest in blades and one (1) [s]Monofilament[/s]Plasma Sword, and seven (7) knives, clubs, or wielded rocks. This is because when wielding two or more melee weapons, you only "attack" with one of them; every other wielded melee weapon, regardless of its provenance, your skill with it, or whether you are ambidextrous with the limb you are wielding it with, adds +1d10 to the DV of the main weapon, and that's it. So an octopus with one [s]monofilament[/s]Plasma Sword, a knife, a pipe, a paperweight, a truncheon, a club, a hacksaw, and a cricket bat, going to town on someone, will be dealing 9d10+8 DV, AP-8. Or 10d10+8, AP -8, if you get the mollusk beak in there, too.
Never letting my "that one player" get an octomorph ever.
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Thu, 2015-04-23 15:37
Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture
Better make sure they don't
Better make sure they don't get a flexbot either, as they're only morph with an exemption to the 10 limb limit, and don't have an upper bound for limbs. Traits can't be altered without GM fiat, its generally not the player's decision how they gain or lose traits.
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Thu, 2015-04-23 15:57
Kojak Kojak's picture
Out of curiosity, does having
Out of curiosity, does having extra limbs make any difference for grapple checks? It feels like it should, especially given how much of the art for octomorphs shows them totally subduing opponents in exactly the way you'd imagine.
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"I wonder if in some weird Freudian way, Kojak was sucking on his own head." - Steve Webster on Kojak's lollipop
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Thu, 2015-04-23 16:10
UnitOmega UnitOmega's picture
I supposed the Limber trait
I supposed the Limber trait would come into it. Or the SOM bonus from Cyberlimb+ for normal characters.
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Fri, 2015-04-24 10:12
ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
IIRC...
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
So an octopus with one [s]monofilament[/s]Plasma Sword, a knife, a pipe, a paperweight, a truncheon, a club, a hacksaw, and a cricket bat, going to town on someone, will be dealing 9d10+8 DV, AP-8. Or 10d10+8, AP -8, if you get the mollusk beak in there, too.
SquireNed wrote:
Never letting my "that one player" get an octomorph ever.
Uhh, isn't the damage bonus capped at +3d10?
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Fri, 2015-04-24 14:56
SquireNed SquireNed's picture
ThatWhichNeverWas wrote
ThatWhichNeverWas wrote:
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
So an octopus with one [s]monofilament[/s]Plasma Sword, a knife, a pipe, a paperweight, a truncheon, a club, a hacksaw, and a cricket bat, going to town on someone, will be dealing 9d10+8 DV, AP-8. Or 10d10+8, AP -8, if you get the mollusk beak in there, too.
SquireNed wrote:
Never letting my "that one player" get an octomorph ever.
Uhh, isn't the damage bonus capped at +3d10?
That one player has never actually read the rules, and will argue with me until the day he dies.
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Fri, 2015-04-24 15:52
FrivolousVector FrivolousVector's picture
Remind him of Rule 1
"The GM is always right".
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Fri, 2015-04-24 16:23
Pyrite Pyrite's picture
SquireNed wrote:
SquireNed wrote:
That one player has never actually read the rules, and will argue with me until the day he dies.
...of blunt force trauma caused by repeated cranial impacts with Eclipse Phase books?
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Fri, 2015-04-24 16:36
jKaiser jKaiser's picture
"...Why does your spare have
"...Why does your spare have 'box of shame' written on it?"
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Fri, 2015-04-24 16:41
SquireNed SquireNed's picture
Pyrite wrote:SquireNed wrote:
Pyrite wrote:
SquireNed wrote:
That one player has never actually read the rules, and will argue with me until the day he dies.
...of blunt force trauma caused by repeated cranial impacts with Eclipse Phase books?
Sadly, I'm exclusively digital.
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Fri, 2015-04-24 16:58
UnitOmega UnitOmega's picture
Tablet protectors are pretty
Tablet protectors are pretty sturdy, and they have interesting ridge patterns.
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Fri, 2015-04-24 17:11
SquireNed SquireNed's picture
UnitOmega wrote:Tablet
UnitOmega wrote:
Tablet protectors are pretty sturdy, and they have interesting ridge patterns.
How did you know I use a tablet? Are you spying on me? PARANOIA TIME! EDIT: On the upside, if I had two tablets, I'd be doing pretty decent damage.
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Sun, 2015-04-26 18:45
Kojak Kojak's picture
I was doing more research to
I was doing more research to bone up on octopus biology today, and I stumbled upon this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2547597/Octopuse... Money quote: "...it found that octopuses are ambidextrous..." So I'm toying with the notion of letting octomorphs have free Ambidextrous traits for six of their eight limbs. Is that too game-breaking? I still can't make up my mind.
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"I wonder if in some weird Freudian way, Kojak was sucking on his own head." - Steve Webster on Kojak's lollipop
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Sun, 2015-04-26 18:57
jKaiser jKaiser's picture
You could rule it as a morph
You could rule it as a morph trait. I know Ambidextrous is an ego trait, but given how vastly different the systems at play are between an octopus' arms and a human's, I feel like giving octopus uplifts all that trait feels a bit inaccurate, since they presumably have to deal with side-preferential neurology in any human morph.
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Sun, 2015-04-26 19:02
Kojak Kojak's picture
jKaiser wrote:You could rule
jKaiser wrote:
You could rule it as a morph trait. I know Ambidextrous is an ego trait, but given how vastly different the systems at play are between an octopus' arms and a human's, I feel like giving octopus uplifts all that trait feels a bit inaccurate, since they presumably have to deal with side-preferential neurology in any human morph.
Yeah, I should have been clearer...I specifically did mean as a morph trait rather than an ego trait, and it would only apply to neo-octopi sleeved into an octomorph (or takko); baseline transhumans or other uplifts wouldn't receive the same benefit.
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"I wonder if in some weird Freudian way, Kojak was sucking on his own head." - Steve Webster on Kojak's lollipop
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Sun, 2015-04-26 20:06
ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
We need a GM equivalent to
We need a GM equivalent to the Bastard Operator from Hell :P
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Mon, 2015-04-27 07:22
FrivolousVector FrivolousVector's picture
Gameplay-story segregation
Octopus arms are autonomous, yes, but it's mostly with regards to simple tasks (unscrew jar lid, and comically place self inside, etc). Ambi is mechanics specific to some complex tasks that you don't want your semi-autonomous arms covering without input from your brain and eyes - so it's ok that your arms just handily grab onto the ideal surface to stabilize yourself, but you really shouldn't use it for taking a shot across a crowded room. So while they would be octo-ambidextrous for things like shuffling cards or juggling, it would be unwise to trust the base physiology with super complex tasks (aka the things to which ambidex actually refers). Besides, that would be a +70CP freebie, and you don't want to see what they can do with 8 seeker launchers.
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Sudo drop your weapon.
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Mon, 2015-04-27 08:57
kindalas kindalas's picture
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:If you
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
If you're really trying to cheese the multiple-melee-weapons rule, you don't actually need Ambidexterity [b]at all[/b], because you only make an attack roll with one weapon when making a melee attack. You [i]also[/i] only need one weapon you're good with. Your Thermonuclear Tentacle Octopus only needs to invest in blades and one (1) [s]Monofilament[/s]Plasma Sword, and seven (7) knives, clubs, or wielded rocks. This is because when wielding two or more melee weapons, you only "attack" with one of them; every other wielded melee weapon, regardless of its provenance, your skill with it, or whether you are ambidextrous with the limb you are wielding it with, adds +1d10 to the DV of the main weapon, and that's it. So an octopus with one [s]monofilament[/s]Plasma Sword, a knife, a pipe, a paperweight, a truncheon, a club, a hacksaw, and a cricket bat, going to town on someone, will be dealing 9d10+8 DV, AP-8. Or 10d10+8, AP -8, if you get the mollusk beak in there, too.
Except the maximum bonus is +3d10 and it goes on to say that weapons that are too dissimilar should not count. Page 206 core book. Kindalas
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Mon, 2015-04-27 12:25
LatwPIAT LatwPIAT's picture
kindalas wrote:Except the
kindalas wrote:
Except the maximum bonus is +3d10 and it goes on to say that weapons that are too dissimilar should not count. Page 206 core book.
The 3d10 upper limit is fine, but "too dissimilar should not count" is not good check against melee optimization, because it's almost entirely GM-arbitrated. Hence it caps a +3d10, but if I was dead set on using knives to complement a plasma sword, I could try to convince my GM that since they're all cutting weapons and therefore not too dissimilar. (The actual problem is that it's a weird and vague rule. It works in a strictly game-mechanical sense of not requiring a roll for all of an octopus' eight melee attacks in free-fall. It does, however, represent strangely the ability to, IIRC, penetrate thicker armour by attacking with more knives not capable of penetrating said armour, while stabbing a squishy flesh-body with five knives is no more effective than stabbing them with four.)
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