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Alternate Bio conservatives?

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Jame Rowe Jame Rowe's picture
Alternate Bio conservatives?
What would be the term for someone who is in favor of using biotechnology but is against the use of cybertech, AIs and creating uplifts, while giving rights to those uplifts and AIs who exist already?
A neoethical noninterference precautionist who knows that Eli\vis Lives only because of the anagram!
jKaiser jKaiser's picture
Precautionist, most likely.
Precautionist, most likely. An "advanced tech is fine as long as you rigorously test it" position, really. Though in any place where sapience grants full rights, they're not going to be very popular, since AGI and Uplifts will take a dim view toward anyone saying "you're fine, but you can't reproduce."
Lazarus Lazarus's picture
I'm guessing that your stance
I'm guessing that your stance isn't that Uplifts can't reproduce but that new Uplifts shouldn't be artificially created. For the most part it seems sort of like they are taking a stance against artificially causing evolution while saying that what currently exists (and I assume whatever evolution naturally occurs) is ok, so I would probably call them Pro-evolutionist or Provolutionists or something like that. However their preference for biotech over cyberware kind of messes that up. One question that would probably help with coming up with a name for them would be to understand why they are pro-bioware and anti-cyberwar, pro-AGI and pro-Uplift but anti-creation for new one's. There are all sorts of possibilities such as Neo-Ethicist, Non-Interferents, Bio-familiarists, etc. depending on the why's. People holding to the above beliefs because of reasons of safety for humanity will chose a very different name from a group who holds to those beliefs for reasons of ethics. It's also possible that they would take their name from an individual who created/codified their beliefs in the same way we talk about people being Darwinists.
My artificially intelligent spaceship is psychic. Your argument it invalid.
Jame Rowe Jame Rowe's picture
NeoEthicist precautionists
NeoEthicist precautionists sounds good. And yes, I would not be opposed to existing uplifts reproducing, just the creation by transhumanity. Since the reproduction is being done by the species itself, which they have a right to do.
A neoethical noninterference precautionist who knows that Eli\vis Lives only because of the anagram!
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
Do uplifts reproduce
Do uplifts reproduce naturally? Would two octomorphs give birth to another, fully Sapient Octomorph? What if a non-octopus uplift was sleeved in an octomorph? A neo-Avian's brainpattern would look very different than a 'natural' uplifted Octopus, even if both are in octomorphs? Uplift reproduction seems to a dangerous minefield of questions!
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
jKaiser jKaiser's picture
I know that's touched on in
I know that's touched on in one of the books. For most uplifts, it's a fairly straightforward issue, but octopus reproduction is...very, very different. So GRM and reproductive rights aside, there are significant logistical problems in the way of authentic octopus reproduction. Most who get past the GRM, et al, probably reproduce via cloning and exowombs. Though some would probably want to go for the real McCoy, parental death and all. Ceres is probably the mecca for that particular branch of the mercurials.
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
I mean the concept of uplifts
I mean the concept of uplifts versus exotic morphs raises some huge issues. Does a fully functioning uplift mind emerge from the biological creation of a new Neo-Octopus? There is no native ego/intelligence to things like a Whiplash or Scurrier morph (hence the Pod brainparts), but would two Neo-Octopus in Octomorphs give birth to a functioning, sane, transhuman Neo-Octopus child ego?
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
UnitOmega UnitOmega's picture
Do two Exalts who have a kid
Do two Exalts who have a kid together have a functioning transhuman Ego? The answer is probably. While there's no guarantees, I assume very little of the total "uplift" process is social. That's the finishing touches you put on when you have a complete "product" and want to maximize it's potential. The heavy lifting is in genetic editing and biochem testing to produce a more stable physical morph and an enhanced, transhuman-level brain. Due to the ubiquity of Splicers, we can assume most real "throwback" genes which would impair an uplift are edited out (though obviously, if they're faulty or partial uplifts, that can carry over). Whiplash and Scurrier Pods don't have native intelligence because they have cyberbrain - and in non-pod form, those xenofauna don't have sufficient (or otherwise compatible) cognition forms for Transhumans. An Octomorph does. Octopodes are probably a shitty example though, my understanding is they're very solitary, anti-social creatures. So transhuman-level parenting is probably not their strong suit.
H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog http://ephrep.blogspot.com/
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
I use octomorphs as an
I use octomorphs as an example because they are from such a different source. Octopuses and humans are so very different, and while one perspective on uplifting is the idea of raising a dumb beast to human levels, it could also be seen as compelling a very non-human intelligence into transhuman range, which would require a lot of proprietary tech. Hence my questions about it. Exalts are cleaned up humans, but their brains are probably quite similar to baseline human (just better), but that raises another good point about the biomorphs and what is inheritable, but I think that got covered by another thread. Do Exalts give birth to Exalts? Do Mentons give birth to Mentons? What about Remade? or Hyber-brights? What are transhumans born into these superhuman bodies like? Being born a Splicer is just to be born the best of human possible, morphs beyond Splicer start to lead into truly transhuman and stranger models. What happens to a child born in an Exalt morph if they resleeve into a 'lesser' form?
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
jKaiser jKaiser's picture
The MRG has a sentinel who
The MRG has a sentinel who was born a hibernoid after their parents purchased the breeding license... and how weird it was adjust to a normal sleep pattern. Ex-mentons are also subject ti greater rates of depression, etc., so downgrading is probably rough for anyone born into an augmented geneline. Most biomorphs can, theoretically, breed true once "unlocked." Uplifts are the main exception to the rule due to social issues in part, but also because their more drastically altered biochemistry has a great deal more that can possibly go wrong. Transhuman discussed how expensive the necessary observations and aid is. But still, two biomorphs of thr same type should generally be able to produce viable offspring.
UnitOmega UnitOmega's picture
Honestly, its the same as
Honestly, its the same as anybody who has a morph bonus for a long time then loses or switches is. Or doesn't have a bonus and suddenly switches. Imagine being a person with no boost to WIL and sleeve into a Futura or a Faust (or something else with a +10 WIL score). You'd suddenly have a mind of iron - your self control and stress management would skyrocket. And then you'd lose that edge if you switched bodies.
H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog http://ephrep.blogspot.com/