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Question about Muse and AI

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Flamephoenix Flamephoenix's picture
Question about Muse and AI
I was wondering reading through the book. It seems like Muses and AI are effectively the same thing is that correct? I'm juts wondering because some of my PC (this is my first game) want to pay to upgrade their starting muse. IE one player wants a security AI instead of a muse (and will spend starting credits on it). I cant find any rules related to this though? I'm inclined to allow it but I wanted to check if there was something forbidding this or an issue that I'm not seeing.
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
Muses have skills that make
Muses have skills that make them great personal assistants: INT 20, Profession: Accounting, Academics: Psychology, Interfacing, Infosec. A security AI isn't designed to be nice and helpful and coordinate calendars, it is strictly "do Infosec stuff" so it would be like replacing the secretary with a hacker, sort of? My suggestion would have the player just buy a Security AI, and maybe a ghostrider or extended mesh inserts? Some sort of tech to carry an extra AI (since Mesh inserts can only hold one limited AI), and have the security AI protect the PAN that all of your devices are slaved to.
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
GreyBrother GreyBrother's picture
As uwtartarus, yes, muses are
As uwtartarus, yes, muses are just AIs and there are some rules, i think in transhuman, on how to upgrade a muse. And while nothing speaks against not using a standard muse - indeed, the books point out that some people use forks of themselves as muses - a security AI might not be very good at that whole "Organising your life" thing that a muse is used for. So your player can just grab another AI. Your Mesh inserts are afaik capable of running multiple AIs with no issue. A ghostrider is only required if you want another Ego in your head, and an AI is not an AGI, which would require that.
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
Is there a soft limit to how
Is there a soft limit to how many AI can run on Basic Mesh Inserts? If not, buy a dozen KAOS AI, load them in your mesh inserts, dominate digital battlefield, much success?
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
There are no official rules
There are no official rules for getting better AIs (to the best of my knowledge). The closest to something official was something mentioned in Rimward (p. 199), an upgrade package to your muse to give them political knowledge skills needed to function well in the Titanian Commonwealth culture. You could get 4 knowledge skills at 60 for the price of [Moderate]. Not just any skills, but some are broad skills such like history and political science. There was some player made rules around here somewhere about making your own AIs. Prices for AIs based upon their CP cost. I don't know where to find it at the moment. If I recall correctly, it started the AIs off with a base package of 10 aptitude points in every aptitude type, then you added skills and more aptitude points using CP. How much the AI would cost was determined by how much CP was used. 200 CP was [Moderate], 300 CP was [High], 400 CP was [Expensive]. Very common AIs (such as muses) or highly specialized (and thus limited use) AIs might have its price one step lower. Remember, these AIs are limited and therefore unable to have: aptitudes beyond 20, active skills beyond 40 (many are less than that), and knowledge skills beyond 90 (the max I've seen used is 80). You're not obligated to use all the CP, as some AIs use less, such as the Device AI which uses 155 CP. The numbers given are a rough guidelines for how capable an AI should be for its price range.
DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
uwtartarus wrote:Is there a
uwtartarus wrote:
Is there a soft limit to how many AI can run on Basic Mesh Inserts? If not, buy a dozen KAOS AI, load them in your mesh inserts, dominate digital battlefield, much success?
The soft limit is 1. A mesh insert or ecto may only run 1 ego or AI at a time. They aren't the most powerful computing device out there. If you use the rules in Transhuman, there will be limits on things like aptitude maximums when running on such limited devices (limited AIs are not that powerful and will probably not notice, but some people might). If you want to be running multiple AIs, you might want to pick up a portable server (Transhuman, p. 146) which is good for 10 infomorphs, get ghost rider modules for your morph, or you have them running on the mesh (which has its own risks). Also, you could probably just fork the KAOS AI (unless you have some reason to really need to buy them more than once).
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
That's what I thought but I
That's what I thought but I didn't have the books handy. Portable Server, 10 alpha forks running wirehead eidolons, commanding Guardian Angels equipped with all the heavy guns, much success!
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
Have fun! ;)
Have fun! ;)
ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
well if its sunward vendor
well if its sunward vendor then the copy protection will kick in DW :P
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
ORCACommander wrote:well if
ORCACommander wrote:
well if its sunward vendor then the copy protection will kick in DW :P
Can you legally purchase KAOS AI in the Inner System?
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture
Depends where you are most
Depends where you are most likely. Fresh Kills is a place you probably could, but it would be a lot less likely in a place with inner system memeplexes more than astrography. It is worth noting that while infomorphs jamming bots looks really powerful EMP weapons can disrupt the connection at longer ranges, and intentional jamming can completely cut them off, and requires nothing more than an ecto or mesh inserts. Jamming is insanely strong. DDoSing the server is also effective, but requires more planning.
ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
Technically, there's no
Technically, there's no reason a muse can't run skillsofts. Muse skill limitations are exactly the same as those for skillsofts. So there's no reason you can't just upgrade your muse with infosec or academic knowledge about the best practices of underwater basket weaving.
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MrWigggles MrWigggles's picture
Well, Muses kinda have all
Well, Muses kinda have all the skill softs including knowledge ones. Muses can kidna assist you on nearly every roll.
ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
Damnable Math.
The easy way to deal with Muses is to rule that thier assistance is assumed in any case, und just levy a penalty in situations where they "can't" help / fork of sufficient copies to help.
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?