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So what can host a seed AI exactly?

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Sat, 2015-05-09 15:22
#1
Noble Pigeon Noble Pigeon's picture
So what can host a seed AI exactly?
In the excellent module "Glory", it's mentioned that a two meter long processing block is almost enough to host a seed AI. I know nothing about computer science so this confuses me. Exactly what kind of infrastructure are we taking about to host a seed AI? I thought you'd need at least a hundred or so quantum computers just to run a single one.
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"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.” -Abraham Lincoln, State of the Union address
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Sat, 2015-05-09 16:10
ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
For reference, it takes a
For reference, it takes a processing block the size of a loaf of bread to house multiple humans, now they are a bit vague of what a processing block is I assume it is about 80% quantum processor and support components like caches, instruction sets and registers and the other 20% being devoted to primary heatsink and pcb mount. Also bare in mind that you can get a hell of lot more performance out of centralized processing than you do with distributed computing, thus reducing overhead compensation.
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Sat, 2015-05-09 16:10
UnitOmega UnitOmega's picture
Well, here's the thing.
Well, here's the thing. Especially now clarified by Firewall, a Seed AI isn't so much a level of AI, but a type of one; specifically one which has the exponential ability to expand with each iteration, including into new hardware modules. The TITANs were an ALI project that went to Seed and became ASI (I/E, godlike superintelligence). The Myrmidon TITAN hardware is presumably sufficient to run a TITAN in it's baseline ALI form, but might not be complex enough to proc that TITAN at seed to hit ASI. The 100s of Quantum Computers estimate comes from Panopticon, mostly, I think, where when discussing Habitat Ops server clusters (which are now normally in 10s), they used to be in 100s which was sufficient to run an advanced Seed intelligence. I would interpret this to mean at it's highest level. To me, you can run a Seed AI in basically anything you want to run an ego in. But if you want a Deus Est Machina, you have to provide that Seed AI with enough space to grow in, hardware-wise. It's the ASI component that has a hardware cap, not necessarily the "seed" part.
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H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog http://ephrep.blogspot.com/
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Sun, 2015-05-10 09:29
FrivolousVector FrivolousVector's picture
What we do know according to Firewall
What the new Firewall book has pointed out is that the minimum system requirements for an ASI ego are above the maximum capacity for any morph on the market. According to the book (p171), a Promethean fork has a COG INT & WIL of 40, REF of 30, and the other 2 at 20, and that is after they have been pruned to a "pale imitation of its own capabilities". For a frame of reference, these egos have 3 attributes at the absolute transhuman *maximum* and they are somewhere between beta and delta-forks. Their attribute spread also means that they can host themselves in very few morphs (I believe the total is 3) that will not have a significant drag factor on all their relevant skills. Interestingly, according to Panopticon p174, even an O'Neil Cylinder Persona Core (attribute max 30) cannot host an ASI fork (probably on purpose). Note: Panopticon (p174) does give a system configuration that *can* host ASI: the Habitat Ops Server. According to the text, most ops servers use 10 quantum computers, while an ASI requires approximately 100.
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Mon, 2015-05-11 02:30
Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture
Do we have any idea how large
Do we have any idea how large EP quantum computers are? It might be that there is no discrepancy between a 2 meter processing block and 100 quantum computers in terms of size. Assuming the block is a 2 meters tall 1 meter square box, a single quantum computer would have a volume of 200 liters, or be a cube with 58 cm (1 foot 11 inch) sides. That seems extremely generous given the power of EP computers, so the block could be a lot thinner than one square meter. This is probably a decent minimum for a seed AI, as there is more than one fragment in Glory, and the Promethean installations seem much larger than a refrigerator. It's worth noting that according to this, a quantum computer is somewhat larger than a portable server, which can run 10 transhuman egos. That full processing block could also run much more than a thousand transhuman egos.
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Mon, 2015-05-11 07:50
FrivolousVector FrivolousVector's picture
If it's a TiTAN artifact,
If it's a TiTAN artifact, then the object size is inevitably going to be wonky because of a singularity-tech level. I imagine that 100 transhuman q-comps with all the attendant subsystems would be a room-filling setup.
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Sudo drop your weapon.
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Mon, 2015-05-11 17:12
Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture
It's not a TITAN made
It's not a TITAN made artifact though, its one of the original Total Information Tactical Awareness Network mainframes, which are not 10+ year old transhuman made computers, rather than Iapeten computronium or something else really exotic. Beyond that, the description is:
Glory page 17 wrote:
The very size of them should make PCs nervous, as the amount of computing power in a 2 meter-long processing block is almost sufficient to birth a seed AI—like the TITANs.
From this it looks like a computer of that size being able to kick-start a seed AI at least is pretty common knowledge, so its probably using conventional nano-rod logic and quantum systems.
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Mon, 2015-05-11 17:34
UnitOmega UnitOmega's picture
They key point though is
They key point though is "start". It's not full godlike, but if you put a babby TITAN in it, it could get started. Also two meters is like, 6 feet, it's a person sized computer, which in EP is pretty serious. An ecto is the dimensions of a credit card and counts as a PC in the transhuman future.
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H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog http://ephrep.blogspot.com/
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