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Some clarifications about re-sleeving

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Fri, 2015-05-08 09:33

trismegiste trismegiste's picture

Some clarifications about re-sleeving

Hello there ! I apologize in advance for my bad english but this forum is very active so I hope there would be an answer for my questions : First thing is about re-sleeving in a brainbox (see the Biocore in the Morph recognition guide for example) How do you manage Integration/Alienation/Continuity for, let's say, an AGI who's resleeving in a synthmorph with a brainbox ? Which time frame do you take: 1 hour or 1 full round ? On the opposite side, the same ego who's resleeving in a biomorph with a cyberbrain : 1 hour or 1 full round ? And which modifers are applied ? I have some misunderstanding about the modifiers (page 272 of the Corebook 4th print) : For example, do you apply the "Character’s original morph type (what they were raised with) +10" for an AGI who's resleeving in an infomorph ? Also, the modifier "Synthetic morph -10" is still applied for a synthmorph with a brainbox ? I have also some concerns about the ghostrider module but I've read that's a hot topic here :) I'll read them first and ask later. Anyway this rpg is just AWSUM ! Thanks in advance

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Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced

Fri, 2015-05-08 11:19

uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture

An Ego (AGI or human-born)

An Ego (AGI or human-born) resleeving into a Cyberbrain (regardless of it being a biomorph or synthmorph) takes 1 round, one of the reasons they are so amazing! "I could shoot my gun, or I can copy myself into another body!" Presumably a Biocore requires the same hour process of uploading/resleeving that a biomorph (sans Cyberbrain). The downside to meat-brains is the time, the upside is the safety from Scorchers (the hacking programs that scramble brains!)

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Exhuman, and Humanitarian.

Fri, 2015-05-08 12:04

trismegiste trismegiste's picture

Thanks for your fast reply

So in your opinion :

duration of resleeving depends on brain type (meat or digital) regardless of morph type
modifiers of integration/alienation depend on body type (synth/bio/uplift/info) regardless of brain type

There is a dichotomy brain/body like there is one for ego/morph (and it's good for balancing cyberbrain vs meat brain). Seems legit, thanks ! Now, about the modifier of integration depending on morph's gender (-10). Do you consider "neuter" (like some neotenic morph, infomorph etc.) is a change from male/female or this modifier does not apply at all ?

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Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced

Fri, 2015-05-08 12:40

uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture

No clue about the integration

No clue about the integration modifiers! I just speak about resleeving times involving the brain parts. (As I recently made a thread about cyberbrains and pods), others will need to chime in to give ya a more authoritative answer!

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Exhuman, and Humanitarian.

Fri, 2015-05-08 12:43

UnitOmega

Yes, being a Neuter or

Yes, being a Neuter or functional hermaphrodite definitely counts as a different sex for resleeving. I have no idea what their hormone balance would be like, but it's definitely different. And then there's the physical alterations. It would add to the problems with integration.

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H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog http://ephrep.blogspot.com/

Fri, 2015-05-08 15:10

Lazarus

Cyberbrain vs. Meat

As I understand it the easiest way to think of the time frame is this; if there's meat involved it takes 1 hour, otherwise it is 1 round. The reason for this is fairly simple. If there's no meat involved then the brain is a digital copy. Moving it from one digital storage to another is limited by digital read/write speeds or else bandwidth (both of which are enormous). It's just like how if you copy a PDF it only takes a few seconds. On the other hand as soon as there is meat involved, either in the download or the upload you are looking at an analog process. Downloading from a meat brain means that the meat brain has to be scanned which is a very slow process. Likewise if you upload to a meat brain you are looking at a process where nanomachines have to physically write data to the connections as opposed to digitally recording the data (fortunately the two process can be done simultaneously when moving from one meat brain to another, so it is still about an hour. In reality it might take a few moments longer so that the 'reading' part of the process can 'build a buffer' before the 'writing' part of the process begins, but I think we can all agree that '1 hour' is an approximation and it doesn't actually mean 3600000 milliseconds so the extra time doesn't significantly impact anything). It's like how it takes much, much longer to either print a copy of a PDF, scan a physical book into a PDF, or make a photocopy of a physical book.

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My artificially intelligent spaceship is psychic. Your argument it invalid.

Fri, 2015-05-08 18:01

trismegiste trismegiste's picture

Good point about the

Good point about the uploading time ! For example, if a biomorph with a meat brain is resleeving in a synthmorph with a cyberbrain, it takes 10 minutes for the nanomachines to scan the meat brain and 1 round to copy the ego into the cyberbrain. Am I correct ? (and from a pod to a cyberbrain, it's 5 minutes)

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Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced

Sat, 2015-05-09 12:28

uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture

I thought any upload from a

I thought any upload from a meat brain took an hour. So meat to metal would take 1 hour and then 3 seconds. The few times I get to play the game (I am the defacto GM in most of my groups sadly) I get a cyberbrain regardless of morph. But then a Portable Server with 10 Alpha Forks running Wirehead Eidolon is even faster than a Cyberbrain.

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Exhuman, and Humanitarian.

Sat, 2015-05-09 12:33

uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture

Related. How fatal is the

Related. How fatal is the removal of the Cortical Stack while in a Healing Vat? Couldn't a 5 minute surgery remove the stack, copy the data in an attached Ego Bridge, then another 5 minute surgery to reinstall the Cortical Stack. Altogether some sort of 15 minute procedure, probably done unconscious for a short break?

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Exhuman, and Humanitarian.

Sat, 2015-05-09 13:20

#10

GenUGenics GenUGenics's picture

How fatal is the removal of

How fatal is the removal of the Cortical Stack while in a Healing Vat? I'd say it wouldn't be fatal at all, and that most operations would be survivable while in the vat. Consider it at least at the level of the most modern and well equipped RW hospital.In fact, a healing vat is probably the prescribed method of safely removing a cortical stack should someone want it removed.

Sat, 2015-05-09 13:25

#11

Lazarus

My understanding

My understanding is that the cortical stack is too deeply buried to just quickly remove it, read it with an ego bridge, and then pop it back in. It's not clear if such a thing would be fatal to the morph but at the very least the time for the morph to heal back up would probably be longer than the time that would be saved. As a side note, I don't think you can read a cortical stack into a new morph as a single turn action. A cortical stack isn't a cyberbrain and it isn't simply the data storage for a cyberbrain. A cortical stack is a backup for a cyberbrain and is designed so that it can hold the data in a format where it takes up the minimum amount of physical space while being able to be quickly written to. There is no need for the information to be 'run' from the cortical stack (that's the job of the cyberbrain, after all) and so there's little need for that data to be read quickly. With those parameters I would guess that the data is stored in some kind of compressed format. Probably some kind of periodic and highly compressed full backup with lots of differential backups. As a result it probably takes a little bit of time to rebuild an ego from a cortical stack. We aren't talking days of time or anything like that, but once again it is probably enough time to make the idea of removing the stack in order to avoid the hour of brain scanning non-viable.

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My artificially intelligent spaceship is psychic. Your argument it invalid.

Sat, 2015-05-09 14:14

#12

jKaiser

It's probably do-able with a

It's probably do-able with a pod, what with their increased cyberware-by-bodyweight, but a biomorph is...well, honestly, anything involving entering any part of the neck is going to be potentially fatal, and the cortical stack is a grape's worth of volume. That's a lot in the area around the brainstem, and that's pretty damn easy to fuck up. That said, I distinctly recall some bit of fiction of someone waking up and realizing their stack was gone, though I've not got the time to do a book trawl to verify that.

Sat, 2015-05-09 16:12

#13

ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture

point of clarification you

point of clarification you can pull information from the brain into the stack but not the reverse.

Sat, 2015-05-09 17:25

#14

Lazarus

re: Clarification

A person can't move data from their stack into their brain trivially, true, but obviously data can be moved from a stack into a transhuman brain (or cyberbrain) through some sort of process or else there wouldn't be any point to having a cortical stack.

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My artificially intelligent spaceship is psychic. Your argument it invalid.

Sat, 2015-05-09 17:34

#15

jKaiser

Yes, but not with the

Yes, but not with the equipment built into the morph. You need, I believe, either an egobridge or the setup a spare has. Probably, there's a one-time upload the first time the stack is installed into a morph, and from there a physical break in the connection ensures it's one-way from then on.

Sat, 2015-05-09 17:45

#16

Lazarus

Right, but the question was

Right, but the question was about pulling a cortical stack from a morph so as to avoid the longer times involved with uploading biomorphs and pods (which is only 10 minutes for a biomorph and 5 minutes for a pod, btw).

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My artificially intelligent spaceship is psychic. Your argument it invalid.

Sat, 2015-05-09 21:09

#17

trismegiste trismegiste's picture

It is written somewhere that

It is written somewhere that removing the stack from a biomorph kills (or cripples) the biomorph. Corebook page 268

Quote:
Living Subjects: Cortical stacks may be excised from living people, but the process is usually fatal (or at least paralyzing) as it involves cutting through the spinal column. ... If the person removing the stack wants to leave the target alive or harm them as little as possible, they suffer a –20 modifier on the test, but may reduce the damage by 1d10 per 10 full points of MoS. Living through the process of having your stack removed is traumatic; anyone who does so suffers 1d10 mental stress.

Above :

Quote:
Once a cortical stack is retrieved, it may be loaded into an ego bridge (p. 328) and used to bring the ego back, either as an infomorph or by resleeving

A cortical stack can "map" a brain with its embedded nano for backup but it cannot "rewire" an blank brain if you put it into the spinal chord: you need a ego-bridge (and a wet resleeving process for a meat brain), see corebook page 300, about the cortical stack :

Quote:
Part nanoware, the implant maintains a network of nanobots that monitor synaptic connections and brain architecture, noting any changes and updating the ego backup in real time, right up to the moment of death

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Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced

Sat, 2015-05-09 23:21

#18

SquireNed

I think one thing to question

I think one thing to question is where the SV for having the cortical stack removed comes from? Is it from the impromptu surgery (likely without the niceties of a real doctor), is it from the psychological impact of essentially being mortal again and knowing that someone has a the ability to make a copy of you from data that is floating around outside your body, or is it from feedback? I don't recall anything about cortical stacks having any potential for feedback, as they are essentially read only.