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Exsurgent virus and Seed AI

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Fri, 2014-09-19 15:19

uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture

Exsurgent virus and Seed AI

If an isolated Seed AI brain scanned (via brain scanner or Ego Bridge) an Async, would the Seed AI be infected by the Exsurgent virus? Watts-McLeod isn't infectious to Transhumans after it grants the Psi trait (presumably) but if a Seed AI, the sort of Superintelligent AI that the Exsurgent virus was designed to infect got a brainscan of an Async, would the Seed AI be infected? The dominant strain trait makes me think that why no longer infectious, asyncs are still totally infected by the virus, which travels with them in their brainprint.

—

Exhuman, and Humanitarian.

Fri, 2014-09-19 16:17

ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture

the problem with the WM

the problem with the WM strain is that it was written in a contradictory manner. One part says it has completely left their system while othere things like dominant strain implies the virus is still physically present. but ifthe latter was true then WM should of spread like wildfire do to people body swapping. now here is another tricky part. is your seed AI just archiving it, Doing read/write operation on it or is it attempting the merge the go with itself. the latter is the only way I can See WM being transmitted to the AI and I would assume there would be a high degree of failure int he virus to propagate that way do to the amount of cutting up the original ego would be subjected to.

Sat, 2014-09-20 01:49

Erulastant Erulastant's picture

ORCACommander wrote:

ORCACommander wrote:
but if the latter was true then WM should of spread like wildfire do to people body swapping.

And what's to say it hasn't? Is there an apparent difference between the scenario where it doesn't spread and the scenario where it spreads asymptomatically? One which transhumanity is capable of detecting and has thought to look for?

ORCACommander wrote:
now here is another tricky part. is your seed AI just archiving it, Doing read/write operation on it or is it attempting the merge the go with itself. the latter is the only way I can See WM being transmitted to the AI and I would assume there would be a high degree of failure int he virus to propagate that way do to the amount of cutting up the original ego would be subjected to.

I think the TITANs were just reading data when they got the original exurgent infection. Why would this be different?

—

You, too, were made by humans. The methods used were just cruder, imprecise. I guess that explains a lot.

Sat, 2014-09-20 06:44

Carrier Primoris Carrier Primoris's picture

Quote:And what's to say it

Quote:
And what's to say it hasn't? Is there an apparent difference between the scenario where it doesn't spread and the scenario where it spreads asymptomatically? One which transhumanity is capable of detecting and has thought to look for?

I do dislike attempting to close intriguing, open questions, but I believe the difference is that carriers would be unable to be infected, and the virus would likely express more often than it currently does. That's not an uninteresting scenario, though.

Quote:
I think the TITANs were just reading data when they got the original exurgent infection. Why would this be different?

I don't believe the alterations made to the mind via the Watts-McLeod strain are, or contain, the virus itself (I very well could be wrong about that, however.) Although, it's possible that a mutant strain could leave a copy of itself embedded in the neural structure. A problem I see is that a seed AI has no reason not to suffer morph fever, and would be unlikely to be able to transfer to a purely biological system in time to mitigate the effect. Of course, it could still try (and most likely keep trying after it was already irredeemably mad.) Watts-McLeod is also notably free from (intentional) subversive effects (maybe.) The result for this AI is that it would have difficulty developing itself along a rational recursive route due to the creeping stress that it likely has difficulty comprehending. The ultima Thule of my rambling is that in the unlikely event that it could or did happen, the resultant entity would resemble less a TITAN, and more a developmentally challenged demigod-child. Ignore any negative subtext in my rantings; that sounds like an awesome villain! "Cannot breathe...choking!...I need your...lungs...your...brain..." Then labored breathing noises broadcast throughout the station.

Sat, 2014-09-20 10:14

Kremlin K.O.A. Kremlin K.O.A.'s picture

Carrier Primoris wrote:Quote

Carrier Primoris wrote:
Quote:
And what's to say it hasn't? Is there an apparent difference between the scenario where it doesn't spread and the scenario where it spreads asymptomatically? One which transhumanity is capable of detecting and has thought to look for?
I do dislike attempting to close intriguing, open questions, but I believe the difference is that carriers would be unable to be infected, and the virus would likely express more often than it currently does. That's not an uninteresting scenario, though.

In terms of what we can detect, your answer is mistaken. First, we can't test for susceptibility to WM infection. This means from an in-universe view, there would be no difference there. Second, whether it would express more, less, or the exact same as we currently observe... well that would be dependent entirely on the ratio of infected to symptomatic. In other words, if those who expressed are merely the ones with early expression... Then the rest of the system could be 90+% infected, and merely be in the Eclipse Phase of the infection. It does make you wonder why the memetic prejudices against Synthmorph are so widespread, and who, precisely, maintains them.

Sat, 2014-09-20 13:15

Erulastant Erulastant's picture

Quote:

Quote:
Quote: And what's to say it hasn't? Is there an apparent difference between the scenario where it doesn't spread and the scenario where it spreads asymptomatically? One which transhumanity is capable of detecting and has thought to look for? I do dislike attempting to close intriguing, open questions, but I believe the difference is that carriers would be unable to be infected, and the virus would likely express more often than it currently does. That's not an uninteresting scenario, though.

Not only is it [i]a[/i] not uninteresting scenario, it's the one that's written in big, bold-face letters on the front of every book.

Quote:
I don't believe the alterations made to the mind via the Watts-McLeod strain are, or contain, the virus itself (I very well could be wrong about that, however.) Although, it's possible that a mutant strain could leave a copy of itself embedded in the neural structure.

Well, going back up to the OP, the "Dominant Stain" trait suggests that asyncs still have the virus, along with the text in the "Playing Asyncs" section of transhuman:

Transhuman p150 wrote:
They are not cured of their contact with the exsurgent virus, and they will always carry it around with them. The virus is, to some extent, aware of its host as well.

And while the WM strain may appear to be only transmissible biologically, it's quite likely that it's still digitally transmissible, at least to seed AIs. After all, it's a smart virus programmed to seek and infect seed AIs. The WM strain is probably not gallivanting about giving transhumans magical powers instead of doing it's job, it's most likely gallivanting about giving transhumans magical powers because that's a way of spreading, and that makes it more likely to run into a seed AI.

—

You, too, were made by humans. The methods used were just cruder, imprecise. I guess that explains a lot.

Sat, 2014-09-20 16:16

uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture

The part about the virus

The part about the virus being designed to infect singularity intelligences (and that in the vein of cosmic horror it only infects transhumanity as a sort of awful side effect) is the part that makes me suspect that a Seed AI scanning an async risks getting infected. In the lore it says something about how the virus was discovered by the TITANs because they figured out some sort of pattern in the Solar Systems layout. So my thought is that Dominant Strain implying the virus is present, means that asyncs are a poison pill despite AGI and synths not being affected by Psi. That was my logic. Wanted to bounce it around here.

—

Exhuman, and Humanitarian.

Sat, 2014-09-20 19:04

UnitOmega

AGI can be affected (even

AGI can be affected (even infected with) Psi, but only if they have a meat brain. Which really is the issue here, the Watts-McLeod Strain only infects biological hosts, and only works in Biological brains and nervous systems (And does not optimally function in partially biological environs like Pods). This basically renders Seed AI immune to the WM version of the virus, as that strain specifically cannot make the leap to digital devices, and Seed AI explicitly cannot sleeve into an individual morph unless using their equivalent of a beta fork, which do not retain the Psi trait. There is no reason to say that WM would effect Seed AIs differently than more basic digital systems (though there is also no reason to say it doesn't other than general consistency). While the Exsurgent virus seems intended to infect Seed AI via the Bracewell probes, the exact nature of the virus and it's intent when the ETI made it is highly ambiguous, and the virus itself appears to be easily molded by such intelligences to perform specific infection tasks. The TITANs appear to have discovered and/or contracted the original exsurgent virus by interfacing with or reading the bracewell probes. If this was a read only infection (equivalent to a Basilisk Hack) the information detail would have to be enormous to [i]only[/i] affect Seed AI, and thus probably cannot be stored in the brainprint or Ego of a single transhuman. That being said, there are other strains of the Exsurgent virus which grant the Psi trait, up to the Psi-Epsilon level, which renders one immune to stress, morph fever and able to utilize Psi while in a purely synthetic morph. I'm not sure it works for what are probably technically massive scale infomorphs, but other varieties of Psi-bearing strains exist. I'm not really sure Psi benefits a Seed AI much anyway, they can already self-improve their "neurology" to get most of the passive effects and probably lack directly linked manipulators to perform touch sleights. Though a Psi-infected Seed AI asking you to "hug it's server decks" would probably be all kinds of terrifying. The reason why Psi isn't necessarily spreading like wildfire is due to the Ego bridge process, which probably either destroys the altered neurology (which is clearly attached to the Ego) during uploading or overwriting it during the next sleeving process. It's not really mentioned how common the "Dominant" variant might be, though, or how [i]exactly[/i] it works. If it means fragments of the biological strain (similar to how some vaccines work) remain in the brain tissue and are replicated by an Ego bridge, that might mean that it could be considered possibly infectious.

—

H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog http://ephrep.blogspot.com/

Sat, 2014-09-20 21:07

ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture

Yes we need not forget that

Yes we need not forget that there are not multiple index strains of the Exsurgant virus Rather the titans got infected by 1 master strain which then mass mutated in hundreds of other sub strains. also one needs to remember is that the virus could debate the laws of the universe with stephen hawking and more than likely win. also remember that the ETI element is optional and the titans designed the virus their own uses but like all bio/nano warfare it backlashed against them ok true read only might execute basilisk hack but my suspicion is that the berserker probe left nothing to chance and that there was a master strain for bio, nano and digital vectors present