From what I can tell:
Basic Synthmorph Augmentations:
Basic Mesh Inserts [Moderate]
Cortical Stack [Moderate]
Cyberbrain [Moderate]
Access Jacks [Low]
Mnemonic Augmentation [Low]
Walker Movement [Low]
(Note Fenrir is not listed with a Puppet Sock like most Synthmorphs)
Total Value: 3750
Fenrir's basic Enhancements and Equipment Value: 33250
(If you really need to know the values I'll list all the augmentations and armor value out)
The Olympian has a similar stat setup with a cost of 40 CP.
The Fenrir has a higher Aptitude Maximum, Wound Threshold, and Durability than the Olympian.
The Q-Morph Synthmorph has less overall advantages, but with a cost of 100 CP.
The Q-Morph has a much higher Durability, Wound Threshold, and less Aptitude Maximum than the Fenrir.
Proposed Changes to Fenrir:
Durability: 150
Wound Threshold: 30
Armor: 30/30 (46/46 with Heavy Combat Armor)
This is probably excessive though. In that sense though, let's discuss!
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Wolf Howling: Fenrir
Sun, 2012-07-29 14:13
#1
Tnargraef
Wolf Howling: Fenrir
Sun, 2012-07-29 15:43
#2
Xagroth
The Fenrir is a tank, and it
The Fenrir is a tank, and it should show. While 150 is excessive DUR, 90 or even 100 wouldn't be, at least for me. I would made a single change to armor: 30 in the back, 46 in the other places. Because while it is not really stated as such, the heavy armor enhancement is part of the package (the stats list the base value and the final one), and tanks tend to have the back less armored (because they work in groups, and with their back to the rest of the army). Oh, yeah, the Merkava is an exception, but that beast is more a land cruiser than a tank (did you know there is a medevac version of the Merkava? Since it has the main weapon mounted, it is not protected by the Geneva convention despite having the Red Cross painted. It is a tank, anyway...)
The detail we must have into consideration when comparing the Fenrir with other morphs (or vehicles) is that it is more "fragile": a Quartz morph won't have a problem if it loses a leg, a couple of systems go offline, and half of it sensory input gets disabled. He needs only to go to base or ask for rescue, and it can still operate the drill or other simple stuff. The Fenrir, on the other hand, needs the hardware to control eight mounted weapons, host up to six egos, and shake off enemy fire, meaning that, while it can takes more punishment than a Quartz, the trouble it gets is bigger. Personally, I'd also lower the Wound Threshold to 12, and apply other stuff than penalties to all rolls to the crew: a wound could mean a mobility loss (one leg down? Half speed. Two legs down? Crawling 1/2), weapons offline (either because the gun was knocked off, a cable was taken out, or the feeding lines for ammo were interrupted), a small gap in the sensor net (-10 to sensory rolls), etc...
Because it is no fun to see the Fenrir taking, at most, 4 wounds (5 is theoretically possible with the RAW Fenrir, but sooo unlikely...), and usually going to fully operative to having some gltiches, to being destroyed. It is more epic, and I think both tragic and cathartic from the players point of view, to see the machine slowly reduced to a lifeless, pathetic hulk. No going with a bang for this dude, oh no! Even if there is a self-destruct mechanism, something like this shouldn't go from top to destroyed like a cheap videogame exile.
Hell, read some books in the BOLO collection. Since the Fenrir is the closest thing we have, it deserves some real heroic stature, not a cartoonish one!
Also, I place here my thoughts on "Fenrir Doctrine":
- A group of Fenrir (Pack) is made of 4 units, and they work in pairs.
- A group of Reapers (Murder) is made of 6 units, also working in pairs.
- Each Fenrir has 4 recoinassance drones, each Reaper has one.
- A Heavy taskforce would be made by 3 Packs and 1 Murder acting as light cavalry.
- A Light taskforce would have 1 Pack acting as a core, and 3 Murders.
Sun, 2012-07-29 16:22
#3
Tnargraef
Well it says it's more akin
Well it says it's more akin to a heavy tank, but is still a morph. A lot of your second paragraph takes into account that Fenrir is a tank and not a morph. Fenrir is a Morph and should be treated as such before trying to turn it into a tank.
Now I do like your ideas and think they should be applied to a new vehicle that is akin to the big brother of Fenrir. Possibly doing the following:
*A speedy version of the Fenrir known as the Sleipnir. [b]Morph[/b]
*A long slithering version known as Jörmungandr. [b]Morph[/b]
*A Medium vehicle tank that could be called Hel. [b]Vehicle[/b]
*A Super Heavy Tank Loki. [b]Vehicle[/b]
Fenrir can support up to 6 Egos, it only comes with room for 2 defaultly.
The Armor of the Fenrir should be consistent all around due the overall pivotal design of the morph. If Fenrir was a Vehicle I could agree to making the armor work in the manner you describe. Since it is a morph with 360 degree vision defaultly, I would think that no matter what it would be able to overcome such an issue with ease being always able to bring it's armor to bear. A somewhat funny example of this: Warhammer 40k Walkers. As long as a walker has fully functional movement, it always uses its front armor to face an attack. If the walker has damaged legs then it can't pivot and turn to face the attack. No other morph has a limitation like this and since it's only a large morph, I don't think we should over complicate it by adding this unless you want to. It could add a lot of tactical value to it.
Just more food for thought and opinions. I do like your opinion on the vehicle version of a Fenrir, but I really think it should be a morph with qualities like a tank.
Mon, 2012-07-30 07:16
#4
Xagroth
Mmmm... I think a vehicular
Mmmm... I think a vehicular version is not needed, in the Core Book vehicles, synthmorphs and robots are called all "Shells", and the Fenrir is big enough by himself.
As for the other vehicles, I was using the Reaper as the light version of a morph-tank, but because the other option would involve the use of the spider morph or similar ones (tachikoma! XD). Of course, having a Sleipnir would involve it having eight locomotive legs, and the superheavy tank shouldn't be a "Loki", but a Thor, Heimdall (if its slow) or even Odin. A Loki would be a name better assigned to an electronic warfare version or a battlefield intel control one!
Mon, 2012-07-30 15:42
#5
Tnargraef
Makes sense overall. When I
Makes sense overall. When I view your rules I see them as vehicle type rules, but that's my perception and might not be what you want. Still this would probably fit better.
Proposed Changes to Fenrir:
Durability: 100
Wound Threshold: 15
Armor: 30/30 (46/46 with Heavy Combat Armor)
For the cost of 100,000 credits, is this too much for a PC?
Mon, 2012-07-30 16:26
#6
Gerzel
Depends on the game.
Depends on the game. Probably for a general purpose morph. However the PCs having one for special missions might be doable
Mon, 2012-07-30 17:24
#7
Tnargraef
Well the Morph is already
Well the Morph is already noted that you can't buy it at character creation. This morph was already designed to be purchased after Character Creation. For the design and cost it simply seemed to have lower stats than appropriate. Simply my opinion and not necessarily correct however.
Thank you both for your feedback thus far.
Mon, 2012-07-30 18:05
#8
Gerzel
Ah you're right. Didn't
Ah you're right. Didn't notice that.
Mon, 2012-07-30 18:06
#9
Gerzel
Then again I'd allow a
Then again I'd allow a fractal troll PC under the right circumstances.
Tue, 2012-07-31 02:46
#10
Tnargraef
Correct. Ultimately it is the
Correct. Ultimately it is the GM's decision on the matter on what is allowed and not. I just find the base values a bit low.
Original value Fenrir:
Durability: 70 (80 with Structural Enhancement)
Wound Threshold: 14 (16 with Structural Enhancement)
Armor: 16/16 (32/32 with Heavy Combat Armor)
Proposed Changes to Fenrir:
Durability: 100 (110 with Structural Enhancement)
Wound Threshold: 20 (22 with Structural Enhancement)
Armor: 30/30 (46/46 with Heavy Combat Armor)
Did a bit more adjusting on it and now showing the Fenrir's original stats as comparison
Tue, 2012-07-31 01:10
#11
Tyrnis
Don't forget, wound threshold
Don't forget, wound threshold is actually DUR/5 for morphs, so if it's got 100/110 DUR, that's a 20/22 WT. A quick glance at vehicles and it looks like they use the same rules, though there may be exceptions.
Tue, 2012-07-31 01:45
#12
Seekerofshadowlight
That seems closer to a
That seems closer to a walking tank to me.