So.
I understand that farcasting is the most used and considerable faster way to travel great distances (like from Neptune to Mars) but what option are there to transport the bodies.
Is there such a vessel that wont take months? Even some small enough to only transport 2 or so morphs? Maybe a little escape pod like vessel that holds a few in stasis and entertains the Egos in a simluspace for the journey?
At the base of this all...
What is the fastest space vehicle travel or is there a way to maybe farcast and have your body catch up to you in a relatively quick fashion?
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Fastest Morphshipping
Sat, 2014-07-05 01:09
#1
Fastest Morphshipping
Sat, 2014-07-05 01:52
#2
Practical limits like that
Practical limits like that would be nice to know for a lot of things but I'm pretty sure neptune to mars is a trip you'd measure in years, not months. There's no FTL or near-light speed in Eclipse Phase. It's still all big bulky things with fuel hungry rockets just pushing off and drifting. Physically taking your morph from one planet to another just flat out is not a thing that is done in the setting, and the sooner you make peace with it the better.
Anything you can send digitally though, you can send in a few minutes tops, so if you/people you're running a game for REALLY want to keep the same morphs for a whole campaign, forwarding along DNA sequences and schematics far enough in advance to have clones/spares constructed on site to sleeve into is an option worth considering. It's arguably a little immersion breaking when you consider the costs involved, and it's still going to take you a bit of time, but it's a decent compromise.
Sat, 2014-07-05 02:28
#3
"A few minutes" is a bit
"A few minutes" is a bit misleading. Generally within a day though. (neptune to mars is ~4 light hours one-way at their closest. I'd say that makes total transmission time around 12 hours: a full cycle for a ping (tell them to be ready to expect an incoming ego, and get confirmation of that) and then another 4 hours for the ego to transmit.)
(Also growing a biomorph takes years, so you'd have to send that data waaaay ahead of time)
—
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Sat, 2014-07-05 03:10
#4
thank you for the reply they
thank you for the reply they are both informative and not helpful but that's not your fault you're right about the possible restrictions of the Setting .
I'm still trying to wrap my head around space travel in the conventional flying through space in a tin can and reading charts about Gs and such just give me a headache
Sat, 2014-07-05 03:22
#5
Again, the better way to
Again, the better way to think of it is:
Spaceships are not a way to get from point A to point B.
Spaceships are island chains, way out in the ocean. Planets are continents. The PC doesn't have a sailing ship, but there's plenty of airports in the form of farcasting.
You're much better off keeping everyone in one city and really making it interesting. Every so often, an adventure might involve travel to some exotic locale, where the PCs can't take all their fanciest stuff (morphs included), but the novelty of being in such a different place should outweigh that, and then everyone's happy to fly home and have access to everything again for their next adventure.
If you want the party to keep their stuff and still go somewhere really different, don't look all the way across the system. Look at other cities on the same planet, or other spaceships in the same flotilla. You can take a road trip, or little sailboat over for a bit.
Sat, 2014-07-05 04:36
#6
Rimward has some information
Rimward has some information on space travel times. The fastest way to move around physically seems to be with an anti-matter courier. Total time depends a lot on the current planet alignment but since it isn't stated which year the game takes place you could easily decide that it just "happens" to be a really good alignment for your campaign.
With perfect alignment I think you can do a trip from Mars to Neptune with an anti-matter courier in 2 months. Add another week or two if the planets are further away from each other.
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Sat, 2014-07-05 16:41
#7
Average Travel Time
Page 183 of Rimward gives average travel time from one orbital body to another. Giving both the average AU distance and the average time in days based on Standard Transport speed and modifiers for different speed of ships. I'd post a screen of the table but I'm not sure if it's allowed on the forums. (And I can't seem to find the posting rules...)
While shipping is expensive and relatively slow, in the inner system it remains doable between planets. Especially if you really need that decked out morph and won't settle for whatever the body bank has or if you're not in a great hurry. For example, Luna to Mars is 27 days. Halved for fast transport or quartered if you have access to anti-matter courier. And nothing is stopping you (Other than possible lack of fund) from egocasting to scout ahead and prepare while you wait for your favorite morph to be shipped.
If that's not an option, invest heavily into programming and either medicine (For Biomorph) or hardware: [robotics] (For Synthmorph) skills so you can cheaply modify of the shelf models into greatness.
—
In the sea without lees
Standeth the bird of Hermes
Eating his wings variable
And maketh himself yet full stable
Sat, 2014-07-05 17:58
#8
I'm pretty sure Creative
I'm pretty sure Creative Commons license allows you to post a screenshot of a book on this forum (or any other) as long as you don't charge money for doing so.
You could even post a link to the entire pdf if you want. Eclipse Phase is awesome.
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Sat, 2014-07-05 23:06
#9
as a point of courtesy Lorsa
as a point of courtesy Lorsa when i link the source books I do it by PM only on here. but ya the CC license in use would allow forum snippets
Sun, 2014-07-06 00:57
#10
The thing is, the smaller a
The thing is, the smaller a ship is the slower it will be. To go "fast" you need tons of fuel, and it is likely to really be tens of tons. As the others have said EP does not have fast ships. A Anti-matter courier is likely to be the best you will get. Which needs 6 tons of anti-matter inside a 100 ton magnetic container.
With such a ship travel time from Luna to mars is right under 7 days.Here is a list of Luna to anywhere from Rimward. This is assuming the closest distance from point A to B
* Mercury: 5.25 days
* Venus: 5.5 days
* Mars: 6.75 days
* Main belt: 9 days
* Jupiter: 14.25 days
* Saturn: 23.5 days
* Uranus: 44 days
* Neptune: 67.75 days
This is the best time you will get and the cost it likely to be more than the cost of a morph.
Sun, 2014-07-06 02:44
#11
Exorbitant price: send it
Exorbitant price: send it through the gates. This would cost a disgusting arm and a leg, and probably look terribly classless or gaudy, but the nouveau-rich are tasteless?
Just an idea, I assume there are some routes through the Discord Gate and the Martian and Vulcan Gates. I doubt the Love & Rage Collective or the Gatekeeper hypercorp would be down for a waste of time as sending a body from the Inner System to the Outer System.
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Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
Sun, 2014-07-06 06:00
#12
ORCACommander wrote:as a
Yes absolutely. I'm just saying that one of the great things with EP is that you don't really have to worry as much about what or how you can post the various material.
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Sun, 2014-07-06 11:07
#13
Seekerofshadowlight wrote:The
Any way for you to redo those numbers to take into account gravity sling shots and braking?
Sun, 2014-07-06 13:21
#14
Rimward p.182-p.183
The books (Rimward p.182-p.183) says it is average travel time and the GM can and should modify it depending on astronomical situation and how the ship does it's journey, and etc.
As for Anti-matter courier, not only are they expensive but to keep them fast, they have very little mass and space of their own outside of propulsion systems. Cargo is very limited and usually only kept for very valuable stuff, like Qubits or unique artifacts. Which is the rule for long travel; only things that can't be manufactured at the destination are shipped this way.
http://i61.tinypic.com/32zkoyp.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]—
In the sea without lees
Standeth the bird of Hermes
Eating his wings variable
And maketh himself yet full stable
Sun, 2014-07-06 17:49
#15
ORCACommander wrote:
http://mysite.verizon.net/res148h4j/javascript/script_starship.html
http://alfedenzia.com/misc/burn.php
http://alfedenzia.com/misc/burn.html
The last two links were done by folks on these forums and predate Rimward. If you look at the charts on link three you will see it has times for each location listed as (closest) and ( furthest). The three links should cover just about any time you need to know. Although as a rule of thumb the ones from rimward really are a good average.
Really however, no one is gonna pay that kind of cash to send a morph. No one. The cost is insanely expensive and still pretty darned slow.If you have the cast to pay for something like this, you have the cash/rep to more or less get any morph you want with a faster and cheaper egocast.
Those come from rimward and are average. without a massive amount of work with factoring in planetary body movements and such these are pretty much the best you get. And even using the Numbers listed you burned up 6 tons of anti-matter. The cost of which is so very much more than any morph you could want to send. Heck you likely could buy half dozen reapers for the cost of 6 tons of anti-matter. Plus crew cost, maintenance to the ship and the like.
Really some times the targets will be closer, other times they will be much father away. If you can search the forums this topic, well the topic of travel time. Has came up often enough and there are a few websites and such.
If you know the hard data such as the ships speed and the like some sites can help such as
Mon, 2014-07-07 16:59
#16
Rocket maneuvers in space is
Rocket maneuvers in space is all about fitting curves between other curves around a central point (often defined by the Sun). At its most basic, the Hohmann transfer orbit is trying to connect two points with an ellipse. A bi-elliptic orbit tries to connect two points with two ellipses. You can extend this further and further, to three, four, and any number of ellipses. In the end, you get an infinite number of ellipses, which actually turns out to be a form of spiral.
To take the example given, Mars to Neptune will take about 32 years with a Hohmann transfer orbit, give or take a few years for the orbits to line up.
However, the Hohmann orbit has always been [i]minimum[/i]-thrust. It's been the chief orbital transfer equation for some 60-ish years because real-life rockets are very limited by having to launch out of Earth's gravity, and rocket engines have generally not been very powerful. With more powerful engines, you can use more time-effective orbital solutions.
As a general case, once we stop minimizing fuel-costs, there are an infinity of viable solutions. To narrow it down a bit, we may want to look at one particular set of solutions, the [i]hyperbolic[/i] trajectories. Those interested in the field of orbital mechanics I implore to go look that up and learn what they are. To the rest of you, if you put something in an elliptic orbit, it'll curve back and return to the original position eventually. Something on a hyperbolic trajectory has so much velocity that, by itself, it'll never turn back.
Let's assume that we're fitting a hyperbola between two different points in space around the Sun, such as Neptune and Jupiter. In general terms, this will have zero, one, or two solutions. Zero solutions occurs whenever the Sun, Neptune, and Jupiter form a perfect line, which happens once every two years or so and lasts for an infinitesimal amount of time; we can safely disregard it.
It's extremely difficult to figure out the two hyperbolic solutions for our three-point system, but there's one single solution that's always viable, and that is when Neptune is at the semi-latus rectum of the hyperbolic orbit. I've written a calculator that solves this for me for a given set of planets divided by a given angle. This can be used to easily find an approximate "lower" bound for time:
At the worst, (94 degrees separation), Mars-Neptune will take 22.6 months of travel-time. In an EP antimatter rocket, this'll require a mass ratio of about 1.07, which means that for every kg of cargo, you'll need 70 grams of propellant. This is very impressive, all things considered. At 45 degrees separation, the travel will only take 15.3 months, but the mass ratio rises to 1.1.
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@-rep +2
C-rep +1
Tue, 2014-07-15 12:18
#17
Another option
Another option for shipping would be to use a synthmorph
that you have the blueprint for and call ahead with your fab order
This method does, of course, work best with new economy destinations
—
At least with Lovecraft, nobody pretends the gods are nice. And wherever you end up, there is guaranteed to be tentacles.
Tue, 2014-07-15 13:36
#18
Leng Plateau wrote:Another
Actually, I would expect that to work best with hybrid economy destinations. In a new economy, you're asking the destination habitat to drop [i]everything[/i] their industrial fabrication was doing and launch an immediate crash program to construct your morph. You [i]may[/i] be able to pull that off if you have @-Rep 90 or something and are willing to call in your level 5 favor, but that kind of thing would be far simpler and faster to pull off by laying out credits to some profit-hungry construction-on-demand shop in a credit economy.
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Tue, 2014-07-15 14:22
#19
At risk of veering off topic,
At risk of veering off topic, this makes me wonder about trading favours. So far as I can tell, the way the system is set up you get your major favour and that's that. It sort of seems like it would be reasonable to say something like "hey there, I'm a well regarded fusion Engineer. If you can provide a morph to my spec I'll run an overhaul on your reactor."
The rep economy is supposed to sort of abstract this kind of thing, but it seemed like direct barter would still be viable.
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Tue, 2014-07-15 15:35
#20
Veering
That's the way I'm inclined to run it MAD.
—
At least with Lovecraft, nobody pretends the gods are nice. And wherever you end up, there is guaranteed to be tentacles.
Tue, 2014-07-15 16:09
#21
MAD Crab wrote:At risk of
Well, sure, direct barter is [i]always[/i] an option. It's outside of the rep favor system, though, just like you don't need to spend a Level 5 favor when you pay out the credits for a Reaper. The rep favors system is an abstraction to basically get something for nothing. Usually, though not always, it would be expected that you'd return whatever it was you requisitioned, if you requisitioned something tangible, when you were done with it. This would fluctuate based on how well-regarded you are and how ubiquitous what you're requisitioning is.
If you have a high @-Rep on Mars and ask for a pile of guns, the Barsoomian Movement (or certain factions within them, anyway,) is likely to drop a pickup truck full of small arms right on top of you and not look back, content in the knowledge that you're going to use those guns to raise some hell that will ultimately be to the detriment of the Consortium or those aligned with their interests or ideals, and would absolutely prefer you keep the guns, or better yet recycle them when you're done.
If you use @-Rep to get a morph on the [i]Get Your Ass to Mars[/i] Scum Swarm, though, they would not likely be thrilled if you went to Mars or Titan with the Morph and no intention of returning.
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Wed, 2014-07-16 08:47
#22
I'm assuming those times
I'm assuming those times listed for travel between worlds on that chart are due to EM drives or solar sails, the cheapest of the propulsion methods, yes?
—
[size=6][i]...your vision / a homunculus on borrowed time
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Wed, 2014-07-16 13:17
#23
otohime1978 wrote:I'm
It says it is listed for "standard transport", whatever that is. I assume hydrogen-based rockets and not solar sails.
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Wed, 2014-07-16 13:44
#24
Standard Transports are
Standard Transports are described in [i]Eclipse Phase[/i], page 349. (4th printing verified, probably the same in every edition.)
So, it's a fusion drive. An [i]Eclipse Phase[/i] fusion rocket, mind you, which is defined on page 347.
And the Escaping Gravity Wells sidebar on the same page indicates clearly that a fusion rocket of standard design can generate up to a maximum of 0.05g. That's pretty damn weak; to put it in perspective, it reaches slightly under 1/3rd of Titanian escape velocity. But if it's already in micrograv, that's [i]more than plenty[/i].—
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[url=http://tinyurl.com/mfcapss]My EP Character Questionnaire[/url]
[url=http://tinyurl.com/lbpsb93]Thread for my Questionnaire[/url]
[url=http://tinyurl.com/obu5adp]The Five Orange Pips[/url]
Wed, 2014-07-16 15:00
#25
As shadowdragon said, its
As shadowdragon said, its fusion rockets. solar sails would be extremely slow. You would likely be talking years or decades. Solar sails are not even listed in the EP core book, so are not in use for anything large scale or common for sure. Anti-matter rocket is the fastest, but fusion is the most common and in use. Older ships are likely to use plasma rockets, i really can't see things like solar sails being in use. I'll recheck sunward but i do not recall them.
Wed, 2014-07-16 18:26
#26
If you want some stats for EP
If you want some stats for EP ships this thread-http://eclipsephase.com/space-naval-combat-segway-antimatter-thread
-is a goldmine !
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Wed, 2014-07-16 18:27
#27
Oh right, of course. Thanks
Oh right, of course. Thanks for reminding me of that bit of info. I don't really do long-range ship travel in my campaigns so it rarely comes up.
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Thu, 2014-07-17 00:55
#28
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:And
Well, Fusion Rocket are meant to be used on ships meant to stay space borne at all time. While Metallic Hydrogen Rocket are used for planetary lander or short trips between neighboring habitats. Ships using Fusion, plasma or antimatter propulsion will use SLOTV or LLOTV for planet landings.
—
In the sea without lees
Standeth the bird of Hermes
Eating his wings variable
And maketh himself yet full stable